a833 rebuild cost

[wasco]

Hello everyone! Things are starting to get interesting as I begin to gather more stuff for the Charger. I'm headed to the Portland Swap meet next weekend where I hope to get most of the big things needed for a non-console four speed swap. Does it save any money to buy a used trans and get it rebuilt or should I just buy a rebuilt unit from (insert FBBO member or sponsor here) ? It seems the used units I've seen on Craigslist go for around $400-800 and may or may not need to be rebuilt but how much, on average, would it cost to have one rebuilt? After I get back from the swap meet I deliver the '67 Camaro to the new owner and pick up my Charger! Then let the build thread begin!

Thanks all!

 

[gkent]

If you can't rebuild a 4-speed you shouldn't be messing with cars. Seriously, they're a piece of cake. If buying a used one you want to see the insides. Make sure there's no chipped teeth as well as no destroyed syncro teeth. IDEALLY you want nice sharp sycro teeth but the simple fact is you're not going to find that in a 50 year old transmission. As long as they aren't chipped, go for it. On the flip side, what do Passon or Brewers want for a new box ??

 

[wasco]

Brewers quoted a 23 spline for $1400, Passion quoted an 18 spline Hemi OD for $3200 - apples to oranges really. Don't need anything fancy, just functional. No drag strips in my future with this car, but good stout shifts would be nice. I've never had a transmission apart but I appreciate the inspection tips.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Never seen a Hemi od unit must be a Passion special.

 

[gkent]

You living under a rock ?!?!?

 

[mopar 3 B]

Must be. I am not replacing the redstrip hemi 4 SPD any time soon and it doesn't need overdrive.

You living under a rock ?!?!?

T

 

[moper]

The labor and basic parts are fairly inexpensive. Under $500. But the big money is in the hard parts. Almost all of them I've seen could have used some new or reconditioned gears. At some point synchros won't be anymore than a bandaid. In the case of needing a gear that parts cost goes up fast.

 

[gkent]

Gears ?!?! Shot gears are few and far between. Syncro teeth I can understand. But I also think the "sharpness" of syncro teeth is overrated. Given the way they contact, its no wonder they wear. And even brand new ones won't stay that way for long. I've done a good number of rebuilds and never replaced a gear because of syncro teeth, I usually hit them with a flap wheel to take off any sharp edges and leave them at that. Syncro rings get replaced because they're inexpensive.

 

[mopar 3 B]

I replaced the idler cluster over 20 years ago at about $250 can only guess what the cost would be today.

 

[Bruzilla]

My Rule #1 of project cars is whenever possible, always spend someone else's money! For example, my 727 transmission in the Roadrunner died last week. By the way... in driving since 1976, this is only the second transmission I've ever had fail (the first was in an 87 Crown Victoria), so transmission failures are a pretty rare occurrence.

My standard options were to buy a reman one from Jegs/Summit for about $1,400, buy a used one and roll the dice for about $200, or get mine rebuilt for about $1,000-$1,200. Or, I could buy one that was already rebuilt by someone else, and they ended up not needing it, and I get it for a song, which is what I did. I found two transmissions that had been rebuilt for projects that ended up going by the wayside. One was listed for $800 and was for a standard rebuilt 727. The other had started at $1,000 and went to about half that over two months, and includes the trans, which was rebuilt with Mancini Racing parts, has a shift kit installed, and includes a brand new torque converter. So I'm buying that one for about $650. I'll disassemble my old trans and I expect I'll get probably $300 for the parts and sell the new TC for a couple of hundred, so when all is said and done, I'll have a top-notch new transmission for $150-$200.

 

[moper]

Gears ?!?! Shot gears are few and far between. Syncro teeth I can understand. But I also think the "sharpness" of syncro teeth is overrated. Given the way they contact, its no wonder they wear. And even brand new ones won't stay that way for long. I've done a good number of rebuilds and never replaced a gear because of syncro teeth, I usually hit them with a flap wheel to take off any sharp edges and leave them at that. Syncro rings get replaced because they're inexpensive.

Not meaning to start a pissing match with anyone... For clarity in case anyone misreads my description - the "gears" are designed with the teeth that align with the brass synchronizer rings cast into them. Those teeth are machined to provide an operating clearance and get beat up all the time. The brass ring is the piece that helps the iron parts match speeds and slide together smoothly over time and is anticipated to wear out. Every time they slide a tiny bit of brass is worn away from the teeth and the friction areas. If the synchro wears a bit (including the non-toothed surfaces) the iron teeth that actually transfer the power contact each other more harshly. Then a tiny bit of iron wears or chips off too. That's true even if it's driven conservatively.
So while I have done it before as you have, there are times when my professional opinion says a unit needs a new (or refurbished) "gear". Every transmission is unique as its history so I don't buy into the "all the time" conclusions here. If a transmission needs a gear, and gets synchros, that is not a complete rebuild. It's a mechacnical repair. If the owner is similar to some of my customers (read that as moderately talented hard-shifting types), it won't last very long before it needs the synchros again and if it doesn't get them, the gears will be trashed.
It's kind of like doing brake pads without touching the rotors. I do that on occasion too, but admittedly it's not the "right way" to do it.

 

[Bruzilla]

It's kind of like doing brake pads without touching the rotors. I do that on occasion too, but admittedly it's not the "right way" to do it.

It's a return on investment thing. Is it the right way? No. Will it work? Yes. Will it work measurably less well than the right way? No. Then do it.

 

[dvw]

The clutching gear teeth on the last 833 I did were rounded. I repointed them with a Dremel fitted with a small cut off wheel. Also took a small file and smoothed all the inner clutch hub splines. It took a few hours. Indtalled new brass and bearings. It is without a doubt the best shifting manual transmision (of any manufactuer) that I've ever raced. It power shifts like Ronnie Sox is driving.
Doug

 

[AR67GTX]

For 2 cents worth I've had 2 manual transmissions rebuilt (but not an A833) and labor/basic rebuild kit ran around $300 -$350 for both. Both needed a gear or two replaced which increased the cost some (installed good used gears). I agree that tearing a transmission apart and put it back together is not hard. The big issue to doing it yourself is being able to study the parts and recognize which ones are serviceable (agree they won't look like new under any circumstances) and which ones are too far gone. That comes from having some experience.

To emphasize this - I just finished rebuilding my A72 (not even running yet - so don't know if it works) and trying to figure out good parts from bad was my biggest hurdle. A rear planetary looked good, teeth shiny and clean, no play in rollers, planets spin smoothly, but I had whine noise in low gear and too much end play when I took it apart. Finally realized that the .060 inch recess in the rear aluminum planetary case that looked machined was actually worn down from the rear most thrust washer which is steel. It was so uniformly worn into the aluminum that it looked machined into it. It was only after I studied the picture of a new one that I realized that area of the case should be flat without a recess. Then I also finally noticed a sun gear with a bunch of wavy teeth. Someone who had gone through a few dozen of these would probably have spotted these issues immediately. So go for rebuilding it yourself if you are willing to spend some time on it, understand you may miss something the first time and have to go into it again. Otherwise find someone who is experienced with them.