Dissecting a couple of dead 383s

[CoronetDarter]

This was the first time I tore down an engine that I couldn’t spin over. It was cramped getting the rod nuts and caps off but we figured that the crank wouldn’t be needed so we weren’t all that careful pushing the pistons out. Every wrist pin was either seized with rust or really stiff.
Cylinders 3 and 7 were the absolute worst.I tried breaking #3 piston into pieces using an air hammer but the piston was tougher than I was. Rich and I traded whacking the back sides of the pistons with this:

I cleaned out the rust scale as best I could with a flapper disc on a die grinder but there was still crud in the way. We hit so hard, I punched a hole from the back side. in #3 piston.

I figured that I needed a bar with some mass and heft and ended up grabbing one of the torsion bars I brought home, an .88 unit. We used it along with a small sledge hammer. This took almost an hour just to get one piston out. We got it though.

I hadn't done a full engine teardown since the 1980's. This engine was a B@#ch. My forearms were sore all the next day from wailing on the T-bar. We were not going to call it a day until all 8 pistons were out and we were finally done around 8:00.

I have a question for the numbers guys…
I know the VINs didn’t get stamped on our engines until the 1968 models. I’ve also read that engines should have a casting date at least 2 months before the build date of the car. With a 5-19-67 casting, could this be a late 1967 block or an early 1968?

The Dart currently has a stock stroke 360 Magnum, the 360/380 Mopar crate motor. I've been planning on rebuilding the engine as a stroker until this opportunity came along. The Dart already has a GTS hood and some GTS badging. Besides, stroking a 360 gets 408"; stroking a 383 gets 496". It took about 10 seconds for me to decide on the BB. With aluminum heads, water pump, and intake the weight can be dropped down close to an iron-headed 360.

It's a shame about the two water logged cylinders because the other six are in great shape. We'll see what the machinist finds.

 

[Kern Dog]

These engines revived my interest in the 383 engine.
Ma Mopar made a LOT of them. Since I've only had big blocks in B body cars where space isn't such a consideration, I've just gone for the 440. A stock bore and stroke 440 is a reliable and cheap way to make power. Header clearance is always an issue but not as much in a B body. I have noticed that in my Jigsaw Charger, the header clearance is noticeably better with the 383 than it is with the 440/495 in the red car. I can access all the spark plugs from overhead in Jigsaw where in Ginger/red car, I have to get to #s 2 and 4 from underneath.

In the case of an A body, the slightly narrower 383/400 B series big block shows it's advantage. The shorter deck height means that the headers fit an A body better than the same headers in a 413/426W/440 engine.

I have a mostly stock 360 in this car:

It actually runs pretty strong for what it is. It would be fun to slip a stroked 383 in this just for fun.
Who knows. I rarely know what I'm going to do from day to day....retirement has given me the freedom to make it up as I go!

 

[khryslerkid]

I've always had 383s and really liked their performance. When I found this '62 and it needed engine work I thought what the heck, I've never owned a 440 so that's what I built for it.

Big difference between the two. The 440 has remarkable low end torque compared to the 383. And it seems like there is no top end. Well I haven't found it driving around here anyway. The 383s almost remind me of the small block gms with the quick acceleration. Not quite as tight revving but the 383 makes up with the torque. A moderate cam and headers the 383 can be a real screamer. Both engines can work well with upgrades and I wouldn't turn either one down. I like both equally. I'm glad I went with the 440 just to be able to compare the two.

 

[69Bee]

Greg,

I get as many pistons out as possible, knocking rod bolts out for extra clearance if needed. Then, on the rusted cylinders, I use a "3 fingers of Death" glaze breaker in the cylinder with WD40 to break away and remove the rust above the piston. The pistons should be at BDC to clean the whole cylinder, and they will usually come right out then. I have done it that way a number of times, and has worked for me. I have a 318 Poly that was stuck on 2 pistons, water thru open valve. I tried for 2 weeks with WD thru the plug holes and could only get a couple of inches worth of turn. I even broke the balancer bolt loose with the breaker bar. After I used the glaze breaker trick, the two pistons freed up, and I could turn the engine over normally. Just a tip for you the next time.

 

[Kern Dog]

I've always had 383s and really liked their performance. When I found this '62 and it needed engine work I thought what the heck, I've never owned a 440 so that's what I built for it.

Big difference between the two. The 440 has remarkable low end torque compared to the 383. And it seems like there is no top end. Well I haven't found it driving around here anyway. The 383s almost remind me of the small block gms with the quick acceleration. Not quite as tight revving but the 383 makes up with the torque. A moderate cam and headers the 383 can be a real screamer. Both engines can work well with upgrades and I wouldn't turn either one down. I like both equally. I'm glad I went with the 440 just to be able to compare the two.

Looking at the numbers, the 383 is like a wide bore 340. The stroke length is close so it makes sense to think that they'd both be short on torque compared to a 360 or 440.
My own 383 in Jigsaw has 9.2 compression and a MP 280/474 cam. It is sort of a slug with 3.23 gears but feels much better with a 3.91 where leverage of the gear gets around the soft bottom end torque.
The 360 in the 67 Dart feels more peppy out of the hole. Yeah, I have a 4.10 in the Dart and it is about 400 lbs lighter but the 360 has the same cam in small block form, 28 less cubes but the 360 just feels stronger out of the hole.

 

[eldubb440]

I have a 383 stashed for all these exact reasons......bolts, brackets, ect, and hopefully a fuel pump rod!

 

[CoronetDarter]

Greg,

I get as many pistons out as possible, knocking rod bolts out for extra clearance if needed. Then, on the rusted cylinders, I use a "3 fingers of Death" glaze breaker in the cylinder with WD40 to break away and remove the rust above the piston. After I used the glaze breaker trick, the two pistons freed up, and I could turn the engine over normally. Just a tip for you the next time.

The biggest obstacle was that all eight wrist pins were seized to the connecting rods. We removed the two offending pistons first, engine still wouldn't budge. We were down to only two pistons left in the block and the crankshaft still wouldn't turn over. We had to use box and open end wrenches to maneuver down to pop the last two sets of rod cap bolts. The pistons then slid right out and only then did the crank rotate.

 

[toolmanmike]

This was the first time I tore down an engine that I couldn’t spin over. It was cramped getting the rod nuts and caps off but we figured that the crank wouldn’t be needed so we weren’t all that careful pushing the pistons out. Every wrist pin was either seized with rust or really stiff.
Cylinders 3 and 7 were the absolute worst.I tried breaking #3 piston into pieces using an air hammer but the piston was tougher than I was. Rich and I traded whacking the back sides of the pistons with this:

View attachment 1747605

I cleaned out the rust scale as best I could with a flapper disc on a die grinder but there was still crud in the way. We hit so hard, I punched a hole from the back side. in #3 piston.

View attachment 1747606

I used the tube used as a jacking rod/lever for the engine hoist but it wasn’t enough.

View attachment 1747607

I figured that I needed a bar with some mass and heft and ended up grabbing one of the torsion bars I brought home, an .88 unit. We used it along with a small sledge hammer. This took almost an hour just to get one piston out. We got it though.

View attachment 1747609

I have a question for the numbers guys…
I know the VINs didn’t get stamped on our engines until the 1968 models. I’ve also read that engines should have a casting date at least 2 months before the build date of the car. With a 5-19-67 casting, could this be a late 1967 block or an early 1968?

View attachment 1747608

You didn't get much. What is scrap worth now days?

 

[khryslerkid]

My own 383 in Jigsaw has 9.2 compression and a MP 280/474 cam. It is sort of a slug with 3.23 gears but feels much better with a 3.91 where leverage of the gear gets around the soft bottom end torque.

I had a '64 Dodge with a 383. I freshened up the top end with reworked heads, cam, intake and headers. It was a bit of a slug off the line also still using the stock converter. I believe they were 3.23s out back. One day I was talking to a guy about it and he said he had a Dana he would sell me. Well it had 456 gears and man that woke up that 383! I drove that car everywhere and never really paid much mind to how high it must have been revving.

 

[toolmanmike]

I had a '64 Dodge with a 383. I freshened up the top end with reworked heads, cam, intake and headers. It was a bit of a slug off the line also still using the stock converter. I believe they were 3.23s out back. One day I was talking to a guy about it and he said he had a Dana he would sell me. Well it had 456 gears and man that woke up that 383! I drove that car everywhere and never really paid much mind to how high it must have been revving.

Shorter stroke than a 350 Chevy!

 

[Cranky]

My machinist cannot do sleeves so we would either have to find another shop or just look for another block.

Is your machinist working out of a 2 bedroom house??

That would be great to have, that's my exact birthday

Bought a 70 Challenger in 1980 and had it for nearly 10 years before looking at the build date.....which was my birthday.

 

[Kern Dog]

The machinist is semi- retired. The shop he last worked is owned by an idiot. When stuff broke, he didn’t replace it. “Rick” the machinist has never screwed up anything of mine in 23 years but the machinery at the shop isn’t his so he has no incentive to replace it. They alway outsourced crank and balancing work. His contacts for the outside work also retired.

*****Edit*****
I took a three legged cylinder hone and ran it up and down cylinder #3.

Now, I was a Carpenter where if you are within 1/8 inch of the goal, you were fine. Those pits look deep to me.

I know that going .030 or .040 means half of that number comes off each side. These pits look deeper to me than .020 for sure.

I’m going to try to bring it to my guy in the next few days. My expectations are low though given how this one looks. If he thinks the pits are too deep, I doubt Rich choose to sleeve it since another 383 could probably be found for less money. To those that wonder why I stay with this machinist, it is sort of simple.
I find someone that I trust and stick with them. I’ve lived in this house 20 years, used this machinist for 23 years, known Mary for 25, had my hair cut by the same woman for 31 years….
Plus, he does great work far cheaper than anyone else. When I had my engine out of Ginger in 2022, I had the block bored and honed, decked, hot tanked and cam bearings installed, old pistons pressed off the rods and heads surfaced for $850. You can’t beat that.

 

[Kern Dog]

I'm off to the machine shop tomorrow, the 5-19-67 block is loaded in the truck.
Today I took pictures of the 9-23-69 block to take to a local guy that does welding at his home up the road.
I showed him these:

Right side.

I wanted him to see the carnage, then what the area is supposed to look like.

The man said he was pretty sure that he could do it but wanted to work on it for a half hour to give it a try, then go from there. He did warn that this is likely a 3 hour job and that he charges $140 an hour.
$420 to fix a busted block.

You can look a bit and find another 383 for under $300. I thanked him but will not be fixing this block.
I got it on the engine stand and started the teardown. The distributor shaft was broken below the block. You've seen the broken water pump housing ear and the break at the left front side of the block...

What the heck happened?
With the intake off, it looks really clean inside. The heads are probably fine and since it turns over so easily, I'm guessing that the whole bottom end is good too. It is a shame about the broken ears for the motor mounts. I may put a dial indicator on the rocker arms to measure the lift of the cam. Who knows, maybe it is a performance cam?
The fuel pump pushrod measured 3.22 like the one from the '67 383. If nothing else, I'll still end up with some good parts. That was the primary goal anyway.

 

[1968rt]

Buy a cheap stick welder!

 

[Kern Dog]

Two up , two down.
The ‘67 383 will need to go well beyond .040 to clean up and Rich didn’t want to go that far. I agree.
The orange engine was broken and the other one is too far gone to save, economically speaking. Two scrap blocks but there are some good parts to save so it was well worth the effort.
Rich and I came back here and decided to strip down the orange engine. First though, I marked lifters and pushrods with a white crayon and had Rich watch them as I spun the engine by hand with a long bar. I wanted to watch lifter rotation. After I had my first cam failure, I was told to make sure the lifters spun in their bores so I would test all the lifters in the engine but I never tried it with the cam in place and the engine rotating. It was wild to see the lifters stay almost still until the lobes started to rise, then the lifters would spin maybe 1/5 a turn, then stay almost still until the lobe ramped up again. I expected that with lobe taper that the rotation of the lifters would be linear and constant. The pushrods barely spun.
We put a dial indicator on the intake rocker arm and measured .268. Multiplied by 1.5, the cam has .402 lift. Was this thing in a motorhome? That low lift makes me think that this was a 2 barrel cam. I did save all of the lifters for refacing. It had a 12” torque converter on it and with this mild cam, this must have been in a Chrysler or some cruiser car.

The heads….

Are they closed chambered?

Yes they are. They have big exhaust valves too. Casting number…

I mistakenly missed the 516 and thought it was 168.

I thought the 516 heads had those small 1.60 exhaust valves. Maybe these were also rebuilt?
The pistons were .050 in the hole. The rod bearings had 3 83 stamped in them indicating a March 1983 date. The timing chain was the stock single row style with a lot of play. It did have an oil slinger.

The pistons came right out as if the engine had no miles on it.

I am saving the rods since I have no spare 383 B block rods here. I took the rear main retainer and oil pickup. The fuel pump pushrod was the correct length so I saved that.
I looked at these engines as parts donors at first but had hoped that I could save one. I’m not disappointed though. This was worth the effort and allowed me to collect some spare stuff that I may need someday.

 

[DeltaV]

You're going to save the crankshafts too?

 

[69Bee]

I would not re-use the pick-up tubes. You can NOT completely clean them out, and they are easily obtainable thru melling and Mancini.

 

[Kern Dog]

You're going to save the crankshafts too?

I have no need for the crankshafts. They will be set aside for a short while if someone nearby wants one but otherwise, I’ll scrap them for a few bucks.

 

[ckessel]

Mailbox stands.

 

[DeltaV]

Two up , two down.
The ‘67 383 will need to go well beyond .040 to clean up and Rich didn’t want to go that far. I agree.
The orange engine was broken and the other one is too far gone to save, economically speaking. Two scrap blocks but there are some good parts to save so it was well worth the effort.
Rich and I came back here and decided to strip down the orange engine. First though, I marked lifters and pushrods with a white crayon and had Rich watch them as I spun the engine by hand with a long bar. I wanted to watch lifter rotation. After I had my first cam failure, I was told to make sure the lifters spun in their bores so I would test all the lifters in the engine but I never tried it with the cam in place and the engine rotating. It was wild to see the lifters stay almost still until the lobes started to rise, then the lifters would spin maybe 1/5 a turn, then stay almost still until the lobe ramped up again. I expected that with lobe taper that the rotation of the lifters would be linear and constant. The pushrods barely spun.
We put a dial indicator on the intake rocker arm and measured .268. Multiplied by 1.5, the cam has .402 lift. Was this thing in a motorhome? That low lift makes me think that this was a 2 barrel cam. I did save all of the lifters for refacing. It had a 12” torque converter on it and with this mild cam, this must have been in a Chrysler or some cruiser car.

View attachment 1749479

The heads….

View attachment 1749480

Are they closed chambered?

View attachment 1749481

Yes they are. They have big exhaust valves too. Casting number…

View attachment 1749482

I mistakenly missed the 516 and thought it was 168.

View attachment 1749483

I thought the 516 heads had those small 1.60 exhaust valves. Maybe these were also rebuilt?
The pistons were .050 in the hole. The rod bearings had 3 83 stamped in them indicating a March 1983 date. The timing chain was the stock single row style with a lot of play. It did have an oil slinger.

View attachment 1749484

The pistons came right out as if the engine had no miles on it.

View attachment 1749485

I am saving the rods since I have no spare 383 B block rods here. I took the rear main retainer and oil pickup. The fuel pump pushrod was the correct length so I saved that.
I looked at these engines as parts donors at first but had hoped that I could save one. I’m not disappointed though. This was worth the effort and allowed me to collect some spare stuff that I may need someday.

From 2021

they are closed chamber but do you want to spend the time and money on them to make them equivalent to a better stock head.

Post in thread 'What are #516 Big Block heads worth?' What are #516 Big Block heads worth?