first start

[benno440]

gents,

getting ready to fire up the 505 stroker for the first time wanted to ask a couple of questions:

* where should i start the timing at (if known) and roughly how much tming should i have ( if also known)
the cam is currently degreed in at 3 degrees advanced already.
do you need anymore details to work this one out?

* it is dual quads i have a vacuum gauge i am going to use to tune the carbs whats the easiset way to sync the duals together and get it running okay ( i will be dyno tuning in the future but need car going alright to get the car to the dyno)

thanks

 

[Meep-Meep]

For base timing roll the crank over until you are at #1 firing then back off to around the 15 degree mark. Then adjust the distributor until the reluctor wheel is lined up to the exposed iron point of mag pickup (the part that comes really close to the toothed wheel. if you have points then you want to roll the distributor body until the points just open. This procedure is called static timing the engine.

Both carbs should have the idle stop screws set at 1 - 1.5 turns from the throttle blades being lightly seated in the bores. Mixture can be 1.5 - 2 turns out from lightly seated.

Make sure you have water in the rad, fuel lines tight, full of oil and a decent temp and oil pressure gauges even if they are temporary. A second set of eyes is great to look for anything that might prevent a problem - leaks, etc... No less than 1500 RPM after start up in about 5 min increments to keep from over heating. Many more things to check, which I'm sure others will chime in. Oh, and oil additive for the cam and/or good oil!

 

[super-bee_ski]

Good stuff Meep-Meep
Thanks!

 

[benno440]

For base timing roll the crank over until you are at #1 firing then back off to around the 15 degree mark. Then adjust the distributor until the reluctor wheel is lined up to the exposed iron point of mag pickup (the part that comes really close to the toothed wheel. if you have points then you want to roll the distributor body until the points just open. This procedure is called static timing the engine.

Both carbs should have the idle stop screws set at 1 - 1.5 turns from the throttle blades being lightly seated in the bores. Mixture can be 1.5 - 2 turns out from lightly seated.

Make sure you have water in the rad, fuel lines tight, full of oil and a decent temp and oil pressure gauges even if they are temporary. A second set of eyes is great to look for anything that might prevent a problem - leaks, etc... No less than 1500 RPM after start up in about 5 min increments to keep from over heating. Many more things to check, which I'm sure others will chime in. Oh, and oil additive for the cam and/or good oil!

thanks meep meep, yep fuel lines done radiator all good brad penn break in oil is good aftermarket electric gauges good.

DONT LAUGH but just a question #1 firing is TDC right? and is that 15 degree advanced or retarded ( i am guessing advanced but just checking) and sorry to be a newbie but what the hell is the reluctor wheel lol, it is msd electronic no points.

 

[747mopar]

#1 firing is when the #1 piston is on the compression stroke. Easy way to do it is to put your thumb over the #1 spark plug hole while someone bumps the motor over (coil wire unplugged so it doesn't fire) until you feel it blowing your thumb off the hole, that is the compression stroke. 15 degrees would be before TDC. Also if you haven't done it already it is always a good idea to prime the oil system. If you've never done this the easy way to do it is to use the shaft out of an old distributor "you will have to remove the gear" or make one. Take the distributor out and turn the pump shaft using a drill "you don't need to spin it real fast" you will feel when it begins to make pressure, I run them until I see oil pressure at the gauge. It takes a few seconds to pump up, that's a few seconds that you are only relying on your assembly lube. Good luck and post a video I'd love to hear it seeing how I'm still waiting to hear mine.

 

[benno440]

does this make a difference also?

so set intial at 15? what would total be at? 747Mopar your saying retard it 15?


if this helps:
12.1 compression running 98 octane.

cam at .50 is 250/255

 

[67 coronet]

if you are gonna go through the trouble to prime it then do it right.once you have oil pressure turn the motor over,by hand,one full revolution.(two turns of the crank)that will get oil to everything.

 

[benno440]

yeh i have heard to do that thanks for the reminder 67 coronet, i will do this. i also have the long oil pump primer rod so all good there.

 

[snakeoil24]

Get your self a carb hat from Mancini you can't really tune the carbs without it. Then start with a mix of racing fuel for the forst tank of gas. Set timing at 12 degrees with vacuum plugged. You should have no timing advance at idle. Figure 800 rpms at idle. Use a 160 degree thmostat. I know its low but intial start up we want no detonation. If you really want an excellent article on tuning go to Mopar Mag azxine Richard Erhenberrg gets it right. Also make yourself a tdc stop from an old spark plug and mark your true tdc using a stop then mark your balancer. Take into consideration your cam advance degrees compared to crank degrees.

- - - Updated - - -

Get a Volt meter to check the MSD distributor when the sensor in the MSD is excited. Go to MSD web site to read how to get your trigger point for the control box. Ifyou need it message me and I will send it to you. The carb hat will use carb flow to set the carbs. Also get a can of carb cleaner to check for vacuum leaks when you first start the engine. Another good item is a spray bottle to spray water on spark plug boots to make sure all plugs are firing at break in. You spray the boots and look for arc's then also get a cheap infrared temperature gun from harbor freight and check for exhaust temperatures at the head to headers. all cylinders should be within 10 20 degrees. If a big difference is noted you will see right away to make sure you do not have a weak spark and improve break in.

 

[benno440]

Get your self a carb hat from Mancini you can't really tune the carbs without it. Then start with a mix of racing fuel for the forst tank of gas. Set timing at 12 degrees with vacuum plugged. You should have no timing advance at idle. Figure 800 rpms at idle. Use a 160 degree thmostat. I know its low but intial start up we want no detonation. If you really want an excellent article on tuning go to Mopar Mag azxine Richard Erhenberrg gets it right. Also make yourself a tdc stop from an old spark plug and mark your true tdc using a stop then mark your balancer. Take into consideration your cam advance degrees compared to crank degrees.


- - - Updated - - -

Get a Volt meter to check the MSD distributor when the sensor in the MSD is excited. Go to MSD web site to read how to get your trigger point for the control box. Ifyou need it message me and I will send it to you. The carb hat will use carb flow to set the carbs. Also get a can of carb cleaner to check for vacuum leaks when you first start the engine. Another good item is a spray bottle to spray water on spark plug boots to make sure all plugs are firing at break in. You spray the boots and look for arc's then also get a cheap infrared temperature gun from harbor freight and check for exhaust temperatures at the head to headers. all cylinders should be within 10 20 degrees. If a big difference is noted you will see right away to make sure you do not have a weak spark and improve break in.

now thats confusing

 

[747mopar]

if you are gonna go through the trouble to prime it then do it right.once you have oil pressure turn the motor over,by hand,one full revolution.(two turns of the crank)that will get oil to everything.

Never heard that but it makes sense, one more step to ensure oil is everywhere. Good to know

 

[67 coronet]

easyest way is to get the rotor slightly before the # one on the dist cap.adjust to start and time after its running.

 

[747mopar]

does this make a difference also?

so set intial at 15? what would total be at? 747Mopar your saying retard it 15?


if this helps:
12.1 compression running 98 octane.

cam at .50 is 250/255

Yes, if you look at the balancer they are usually marked BTDC (before top dead center) which would be before you reach TDC as you are cranking it over. Someone also mentioned 12 degrees which is fine, you won't know what it truly wants until you tune it. Good luck

 

[RustyRatRod]

There's no way to know your total timing until you get it running and set it. Don't worry about tuning issues. Just time it and adjust the carb good enough to bust it off and break in the cam. That's all you need to worry with on the first fire. Let it run like **** if it does. Just let it run.

 

[Meep-Meep]

thanks meep meep, yep fuel lines done radiator all good brad penn break in oil is good aftermarket electric gauges good.

DONT LAUGH but just a question #1 firing is TDC right? and is that 15 degree advanced or retarded ( i am guessing advanced but just checking) and sorry to be a newbie but what the hell is the reluctor wheel lol, it is msd electronic no points.

No laughing; I promise! TDC can apply to any piston that is at the top of it's cylinder, but what we care about right now is cyl #1. Yep, I meant 15 deg before TDC - as in advanced. Also make sure the firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 going in a CCW direction.

I figured you weren't running points so I referenced the electronic ignition components. The reluctor is the Chrysler term for the eight pointed wheel that is on the distributor shaft. It replaces the points cam. As each tooth passes the exposed iron part of the mag pickup a voltage is induced in the coil of the pickup and that signal is what triggers the MSD to fire the coil. I'm not sure exactly what the MSD distributor uses as a trigger but it's something similar I'm sure. Other variants are the Mallory Unilite that uses an LED and a photo transistor to trigger the module. Pertronix uses magnets equally spaced on the distributor cam to trigger a hall sensor that turns on a transistor to fire the coil. Model T's used a spark coil to make the high voltage! Just different methods of switching.

 

[shag766]

"thanks meep meep, yep fuel lines done radiator all good brad penn break in oil is good aftermarket electric gauges good."

i really prefer good quality mechanical gauges over electric. that's just me though. old school

 

[Meep-Meep]

"thanks meep meep, yep fuel lines done radiator all good brad penn break in oil is good aftermarket electric gauges good."

i really prefer good quality mechanical gauges over electric. that's just me though. old school

Yeah, me too. Hard to go wrong with those.