Road Grabber
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- Apr 14, 2020
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- Sarasota Florida/NY State
I thought I would ask the Mopar experts out there for their thoughts with my situation.
Some background:
I brought a 440 six pack engine to a builder to freshen it up with a more modern approach. The engine ran great except I had some bad gas clogging the filter and carbs. A freeze out plug ready to rust out. Leaking gaskets from 25 years ago. Engine compartment peeling - just needed to come out. I had closed chamber heads which were great until I couldn't get high test and it was pinging. Figured aluminum heads to combat heat and the detonation. I built this engine, myself using the Yellow Direct Connection book specs. Worked great with a 284/484 Purple Shaft Cam
After some research I liked the idea of Trickflow 240 heads with hydraulic roller rockers and roller lifters. Bought the heads, cam from Hughes Cams, Harland Sharp rockers.
After 4 years my engine builder bailed on me. Lost staff and didn't want to finish the job. I wanted to finish the build on a dyno. He told me to come pick it up which meant I was responsible for stuff that didn't work out on start up. I have a few words for him....
I put the rest of the engine together. The long block was assembled with the heads, rockers, valve train, intake and oil pump together. Shipped to him with factory instructions.
After putting the rest of the engine together I primed the oil pump before start up which was the very first red flag. I couldn't get a steady hard resistance while using my drill. Some resistance but not the usual hard pump. I have always had to use a 1/2 drive drive for fear of burning out the drill if I didn't. I let the drill prime and I know oil was pumping but it wasn't really making pressure. I was using break-in oil and thought maybe the thinner 30 weight oil might be the reason. I called the builder and he said they run their primer for sometimes 10 minutes. I never had to do that but he is a race engine building shop right?---mostly Chevy engines of course...Engine builders are hard to find in my area.
I don't want to make this a book so here goes.
At start up it took much longer to build up to 10, 20 then 30 psi oil pressure that didn't seam to raise with rpms. I had clatter that took a while to work out but I wasn't sure how long this would take given the different valve train. I didn't know if he pre-pumped the lifters or let them soak. I heard Harland Sharp valve train needs more oil. I had other issues like gas and oil leaks so I shut it down. I worked out leaks in the carbs due to crappy gaskets. I fixed leaking valve cover gaskets. Started a second and third time with ticking noises again thinking maybe the valve train was hitting the valve covers. Took off the valve covers - they are not hitting. I moved the rockers by hand on some of the rockers and they were moving 1/16"? play. I thought maybe bleed down after start up?
I posted this problem with the Trickflow heads and ticking then did some research. Trickflow for some of you thinking about this has oil restrictors already in the heads and are setup for Harland Sharp valve train. This is not an oil restrictor issue. I called them to verify.
I used a lifter preload procedure chart posted by someone to check preload. I set the preload to 5/8 a turn. Trickflow says they use 1/2 turn so I'm not far off really to make a difference in my opinion. I started the engine and a lot of MORE noise on I think mostly the passenger bank that eventually lessened. Enough that I was worried I hit the valves on it seemed the right bank.
I removed the valve covers AGAIN and adjusted the valves preload using TDC for each cylinder and started it again. The tapping noise was better but it ran rough.
I think I am not getting pressurized oil needs to the lifters. I hope the builder didn't forget to put back a galley plug?
I have a high volume pump that I know was putting out 60 psi for the engine before. I didn't use it again because I sent a new Melling regular pump to the builder. I am thinking install it and see if something changes. At least try priming with the other pump.
Since the pressure was not good from the get go when I primed I figure maybe bad pump, bad relief pressure pump valve, forgotten oil galley plug?
I am HOPING the bearings are not damaged. It did take a bit to pressure to 30 psi but there was oil up in the heads so some oil is getting in the engine but not any decent pressure. And the oil pressure is not rising with rpm. It might get to 30 and stay there.
Just a side note. I did use the proper distributor gear for the roller lifter cam setup. I don't think it's the drive gear since I didn't get much out of priming from the very beginning. The crank was never cut so I don't think he put the wrong size bearings in.
Cam bearing install I can't tell you. I hope someone in a race engine shop knows how to install bearings?
Does anyone have some insight they can share? Thank you in advance. This sucks....
Some background:
I brought a 440 six pack engine to a builder to freshen it up with a more modern approach. The engine ran great except I had some bad gas clogging the filter and carbs. A freeze out plug ready to rust out. Leaking gaskets from 25 years ago. Engine compartment peeling - just needed to come out. I had closed chamber heads which were great until I couldn't get high test and it was pinging. Figured aluminum heads to combat heat and the detonation. I built this engine, myself using the Yellow Direct Connection book specs. Worked great with a 284/484 Purple Shaft Cam
After some research I liked the idea of Trickflow 240 heads with hydraulic roller rockers and roller lifters. Bought the heads, cam from Hughes Cams, Harland Sharp rockers.
After 4 years my engine builder bailed on me. Lost staff and didn't want to finish the job. I wanted to finish the build on a dyno. He told me to come pick it up which meant I was responsible for stuff that didn't work out on start up. I have a few words for him....
I put the rest of the engine together. The long block was assembled with the heads, rockers, valve train, intake and oil pump together. Shipped to him with factory instructions.
After putting the rest of the engine together I primed the oil pump before start up which was the very first red flag. I couldn't get a steady hard resistance while using my drill. Some resistance but not the usual hard pump. I have always had to use a 1/2 drive drive for fear of burning out the drill if I didn't. I let the drill prime and I know oil was pumping but it wasn't really making pressure. I was using break-in oil and thought maybe the thinner 30 weight oil might be the reason. I called the builder and he said they run their primer for sometimes 10 minutes. I never had to do that but he is a race engine building shop right?---mostly Chevy engines of course...Engine builders are hard to find in my area.
I don't want to make this a book so here goes.
At start up it took much longer to build up to 10, 20 then 30 psi oil pressure that didn't seam to raise with rpms. I had clatter that took a while to work out but I wasn't sure how long this would take given the different valve train. I didn't know if he pre-pumped the lifters or let them soak. I heard Harland Sharp valve train needs more oil. I had other issues like gas and oil leaks so I shut it down. I worked out leaks in the carbs due to crappy gaskets. I fixed leaking valve cover gaskets. Started a second and third time with ticking noises again thinking maybe the valve train was hitting the valve covers. Took off the valve covers - they are not hitting. I moved the rockers by hand on some of the rockers and they were moving 1/16"? play. I thought maybe bleed down after start up?
I posted this problem with the Trickflow heads and ticking then did some research. Trickflow for some of you thinking about this has oil restrictors already in the heads and are setup for Harland Sharp valve train. This is not an oil restrictor issue. I called them to verify.
I used a lifter preload procedure chart posted by someone to check preload. I set the preload to 5/8 a turn. Trickflow says they use 1/2 turn so I'm not far off really to make a difference in my opinion. I started the engine and a lot of MORE noise on I think mostly the passenger bank that eventually lessened. Enough that I was worried I hit the valves on it seemed the right bank.
I removed the valve covers AGAIN and adjusted the valves preload using TDC for each cylinder and started it again. The tapping noise was better but it ran rough.
I think I am not getting pressurized oil needs to the lifters. I hope the builder didn't forget to put back a galley plug?
I have a high volume pump that I know was putting out 60 psi for the engine before. I didn't use it again because I sent a new Melling regular pump to the builder. I am thinking install it and see if something changes. At least try priming with the other pump.
Since the pressure was not good from the get go when I primed I figure maybe bad pump, bad relief pressure pump valve, forgotten oil galley plug?
I am HOPING the bearings are not damaged. It did take a bit to pressure to 30 psi but there was oil up in the heads so some oil is getting in the engine but not any decent pressure. And the oil pressure is not rising with rpm. It might get to 30 and stay there.
Just a side note. I did use the proper distributor gear for the roller lifter cam setup. I don't think it's the drive gear since I didn't get much out of priming from the very beginning. The crank was never cut so I don't think he put the wrong size bearings in.
Cam bearing install I can't tell you. I hope someone in a race engine shop knows how to install bearings?
Does anyone have some insight they can share? Thank you in advance. This sucks....