Overcharged?

[moparedtn]

Battery Tender here on Fred the GTX for some years now. Never an issue....

 

[RM23M9A]

I should have asked you what brand of trickle charger you have. Most/all now days will taper off and shut down when the battery is charged. Most of the new trickle chargers I see now days are also advertised as maintainers. They are designed to be hooked to the battery and left on. My older Schumacher tapers off and will kick back on as needed. It is a 50/10/2a charger.

With the cables connected? While charging?

Thanks--

 

[toolmanmike]

With the cables connected? While charging?

Thanks--

Sorry, I don't understand your question.

 

[RM23M9A]

Voltage reg not powered unless key was on.

How about a resistance spec? There's a guy on YouTube who runs this test how to tell good from bad?

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

So, me being a "Purist", what can be done to eliminate this from the future? I also wondered "Surely an UNDERPOWERED alternator could have also caused more draw upon say, a 60 amp alternator if conditions were right just once"? Maybe a 70/100 amp I need? I dont have anything on this car that wasnt factory.

Thanks!!!

Stock loads? By-pass the Packard bulkhead terminals at a minimum. Either remove the black 12ga alternator output lead from the bulkhead, cut off the Packard, carefully splice a length of 12ga wire and route it though a grommet in the firewall and splice it to the inside 12ga black alt wire. Another option is to drill through cavity the black wire was in after removing the terminals from both sides and run the splice through the bulkhead cavity for a factory appearance. Recommend by-passing the battery side of the charging circuit Packard terminal as well, on that car it’s fusible link bulkhead cavity. The 60 amp alt should be enough for stock loads, anything bigger should have these alternator wires up-sized to at least 8ga.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

How about a resistance spec? There's a guy on YouTube who runs this test how to tell good from bad?
View attachment 1259391

Comparing resistance measurements is not that actuate with various manufactures regs. Will only be able to identify completely dead units. Is your regulator regulating or not, if so, at what voltage? If not, are you sure it’s the regulator? Pull the connector, ground the green wire terminal in the plug to full field the alternator. If it charges, regulator is bad. If there is no alternator output while full fielded at the reg plug, the problem is elsewhere.

 

[RM23M9A]

Comparing resistance measurements is not that actuate with various manufactures regs. Will only be able to identify completely dead units. Is your regulator regulating or not, if so, at what voltage? If not, are you sure it’s the regulator? Pull the connector, ground the green wire terminal in the plug to full field the alternator. If it charges, regulator is bad. If there is no alternator output while full fielded at the reg plug, the problem is elsewhere.

Great advice! Thanks!!!

 

[RM23M9A]

Your bulkhead connection wasn't melted by your trickle charger...

Think it may have been a grounded alternator/field wire problem?

 

[dadsbee]

Think it may have been a grounded alternator/field wire problem?

No, as already pointed out it was caused by 50 years of current and loose/corroded connections, like every other vehicle of the day... like mine..

 

[RM23M9A]

No, as already pointed out it was caused by 50 years of current and loose/corroded connections, like every other vehicle of the day... like mine..
View attachment 1259554 View attachment 1259555 View attachment 1259556

Wow.. Yeah mine looked like that. I gutted the entire dash & engine wiring last year, installed all NEW M&H harnesses, it did fine for a long time.. Until last week. Now its the alternator feed wire.
Can't imagine using one of those "Painless" things.. I guess I start over again?

Maybe the alternator grounded itself?
Battery holds 12.7 volts just fine. Even with cables hooked up. I dunno where to go with it.

Thanks!!

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Wow.. Yeah mine looked like that. I gutted the entire dash & engine wiring last year, installed all NEW M&H harnesses, it did fine for a long time.. Until last week. Now its the alternator feed wire.
Can't imagine using one of those "Painless" things.. I guess I start over again?

Maybe the alternator grounded itself?
Battery holds 12.7 volts just fine. Even with cables hooked up. I dunno where to go with it.

Thanks!!

One more attempt to explain, this is a design flaw in the stock original charging system and is by far the weakest link in the entire system. A result of trying to make the assembly of these connections faster on the assembly line. Again, they have been failing in short order since these cars were new. That Packard terminal can not handle what turned out to be normal real world current load on that alternator output circuit. They were not sealed and prone to corrosion as well. The M&H reproductions are just that, exact copies of the original harnesses including this flaw. For an all stock load configuration, the easiest fix is to by-pass these charge circuit terminals in the bulkhead connector as the factory did for all Police/fleet production.

 

[RM23M9A]

One more attempt to explain, this is a design flaw in the stock original charging system and is by far the weakest link in the entire system. A result of trying to make the assembly of these connections faster on the assembly line. Again, they have been failing in short order since these cars were new. That Packard terminal can hot handle what turned out to be normal real world current load on that alternator output circuit. They were not sealed and prone to corrosion as well. The M&H reproductions are just that, exact copies of the original harnesses including this flaw. For an all stock load configuration, the easiest fix is to by-pass these charge circuit terminals in the bulkhead connector as the factory did for all Police/fleet production.

Wow! Never knew that! Wouldnt do a lot of good to replace what will probably happen again! I really appreciate the info!

Seems Ive drawn a lot of attention to maybe selling it. I hate to think of it. As how many of US have the old "Man I wish I still HAD" thing?!
I may try that!

Thanks a BUNCH @72RoadrunnerGTX !!

 

[RM23M9A]

Stock loads? By-pass the Packard bulkhead terminals at a minimum. Either remove the black 12ga alternator output lead from the bulkhead, cut off the Packard, carefully splice a length of 12ga wire and route it though a grommet in the firewall and splice it to the inside 12ga black alt wire. Another option is to drill through cavity the black wire was in after removing the terminals from both sides and run the splice through the bulkhead cavity for a factory appearance. Recommend by-passing the battery side of the charging circuit Packard terminal as well, on that car it’s fusible link bulkhead cavity. The 60 amp alt should be enough for stock loads, anything bigger should have these alternator wires up-sized to at least 8ga.

12 ga will be enough?
(Not to question too much)
Now I'm looking into some wire! I know the basic rule of M.A.L.T. with electrical, I cant see using a 10ga, Man I really appreciate it!

 

[Nacho-RT74]

This proves where is the real problem, aside the lack of power coming from stock alts which provides more load as soon you rev up the engine to recharge the batt aside get the car sourced.

And the ammeter didn't explode LOL.

On stock configuration, more power from alt will save the circutry from get juice coming from batt, to then, get the batt charged back which increases the load for it.

Bypass or parallel paths ( which I made ) to the bulkhead main wires ( black and red ) and you are allmost ready. Then an alt able to source 45-55 amps at iddle.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

12 ga will be enough?

Not for me on that circuit. But unless you are willing to replace the entire wire run from the alternator stud to the ammeter/splice 1 with a larger wire, you gain nothing by splicing in a by-pass with anything bigger.

 

[RJRENTON]

Comparing resistance measurements is not that actuate with various manufactures regs. Will only be able to identify completely dead units. Is your regulator regulating or not, if so, at what voltage? If not, are you sure it’s the regulator? Pull the connector, ground the green wire terminal in the plug to full field the alternator. If it charges, regulator is bad. If there is no alternator output while full fielded at the reg plug, the problem is elsewhere.

True... because the regulator has several parallel and series internal voltage divider networks as well as two cascaded transistor circuits, which controls the field current switching transistor and ultimately the alternator field, it is impossible to actually determine a GOOD/BAD test, thru the combination of the two case plug and ground connections. IMO....the best test is test by substitution.
BOB RENTON

 

[RM23M9A]

One more attempt to explain, this is a design flaw in the stock original charging system and is by far the weakest link in the entire system. A result of trying to make the assembly of these connections faster on the assembly line. Again, they have been failing in short order since these cars were new. That Packard terminal can not handle what turned out to be normal real world current load on that alternator output circuit. They were not sealed and prone to corrosion as well. The M&H reproductions are just that, exact copies of the original harnesses including this flaw. For an all stock load configuration, the easiest fix is to by-pass these charge circuit terminals in the bulkhead connector as the factory did for all Police/fleet production.

Is there a basic schematic you know of showing what routes I might use to make this jump? I grabbed some 10ga wire.. And a pack of Packard male treminals. I think I get it now!
Thanks!!

 

[RM23M9A]

This proves where is the real problem, aside the lack of power coming from stock alts which provides more load as soon you rev up the engine to recharge the batt aside get the car sourced.

And the ammeter didn't explode LOL.

On stock configuration, more power from alt will save the circutry from get juice coming from batt, to then, get the batt charged back which increases the load for it.

Bypass or parallel paths ( which I made ) to the bulkhead main wires ( black and red ) and you are allmost ready. Then an alt able to source 45-55 amps at iddle.

I wonder if this whole time, the Electronic Ignotion is responsible for ALL of this?
Would POINTS be a better fix?

Thanks!!

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

I grabbed some 10ga wire.. And a pack of Packard male treminals. I think I get it now!
Thanks!!

Not sure you are getting it, NO Packard connectors in that circuit!

 

[RJRENTON]

This proves where is the real problem, aside the lack of power coming from stock alts which provides more load as soon you rev up the engine to recharge the batt aside get the car sourced. TOTAL SUPPOSITION....state lack of power in terms of AMPERAGE....WHAT does batt aside get the car sourced mean....what you say makes no sense

And the ammeter didn't explode LOL. AMMETERS ARE NOT EXPLOSIVE DEVICES AND DO NOT EXPLODE

On stock configuration, more power from alt will save the circutry from get juice coming from batt, to then, get the batt charged back which increases the load for it. Wrong....exactly HOW WILL IT SAVE THE CIRCUITRY? WHAT DOES BATT CHARGED BACK INCREASES THE LOAD FOR IT MEAN.....total supposition based on nothing

Bypass or parallel paths ( which I made ) to the bulkhead main wires ( black and red ) and you are allmost ready. Then an alt able to source 45-55 amps at iddle.

bypass or parallel paths....a circuit cannot be bypassed and at the same time parallel (to what?)..be descriptive in terms of drawings, photographs and calculations to prove your point. The alt able to source 45-55 amps at iddle.....first, iddle is not a word and means nothing. The alternator can produce 45-55 amps at idle IF, the origional design had the correct stator windings and diodes and the field were fully energized and the operating RPM were above the design threshold minimum
Perhaps you should just sit back and listen rather than speculate......
BOB RENTON