RV 440?

[Bad B-rad]

So they are liars it was $5 bucks a month, but I paid and watched it.
I will save everyone the 5 bucks, as tested the stock motorhome 440 with 7.2 to one CR, and headers made 319HP @ 4300rpm and 452TQ @3200.
They advanced timing to 41 degrees and got 327.7 HP @4400RPM, and 457.8 TQ @3100rpm.

Next Dulcich added a comps cam 'THUMPER" grind 227/241@fifty thou and 486/473 lift , installed at 101 deg.
Added a summit timing chain with 9 key way combos, and an Edelbrock performer rpm intake manifold, with a Holley brawler 850 double pumper.
Steve Dulcich said he picked that cam, and that installed centerline (101 degrees) to help the low compression.
On the dyno it made 381.7HP@4900rpm, and 476LBS TQ@3500rpm, so added 54HP and 18ftlbs tq.

They commented on how the factory cam was DEAD by 5,000rpm, and that factory heads were the reason this engine didnt see larger results from the parts swap.

I wonder how a set of stealth 440 source heads would help.
I personally LOVE the performer RPM intake for the street, but I prefer vacuum 2nds, and might go with an 800CFM AVS, but I dont have an engine dyno, and/or a tv show so, they must know.


I was VERY surprised by the stock HP numbers with just headers, on this engine, I noticed they tested with no belt driven items(wp/PS/Alt)
It is almost hard to believe that stock Chrysler said 235HP, and with timing and headers, and no accessories, they got 319HP using stock thermoquad!!
I guess a fan COULD eat 15-20HP, plus the WP.....

 

[Bad B-rad]

On a different episode they brought the motorhome 440 back in and changed the cam centerline, one pull advanced and one pull retarted.
With the cam(same as the previous test) installed "straight up" at 107 degree centerline, it made best HP power,464.8TQ@3600 and 392HP@5100Rpm.

 

[Cranky]

That 8/25 is assembly date,
Casting date is on side of block.
5/28/75 I think it reads.
then the 4006630-440-2 is on all 75-78 440RB
The "2" after the 440 I am not sure, it MAY be 2nd shift, someone may chime in with more info.

From what I understand, the '2' after the 440 means the block was cast from a mold that had been used once already....or the pattern has.

I am just educating myself right now, I just bought the 1973 Winnebago, I dont have it home yet.
My 69 is #'s matching 383, and runs great, so I really have no clue what I am gonna do with the 440 yet.
I have a 5.7 Hemi, waiting for a cam, I was gonna put in my 77 Stepside, midnight express clone, but maybe the 440 will go in that.

I do have 2 sets of Mopar steel shim .020 gaskets in the package still, so if I was gonna cut iron heads I would have them to use.
I have reservations about cutting the heads, only because once heads are cut, wont I will have to cut intake, or intake side of head??
And will I need custom push rods?
Also how much is recommended to cut off?
Again, I am just asking questions, I dont have the 440 home yet, it may need an overbore, and that would throw the "CHEAP" thing out the window.

With the Winnebago trans, could I take my 4x4 small block 727(in my step side), and mix the tail end parts with the Winnebago big block 727 to convert it for use in the 4x4??
I have never had a small block 727 apart before, and again, if this can not be done, then that also is a factor to it going in my truck.
I have found a bunch of very useful threads on the subject here!!

I'm no transmission guru but the guts of the small block 727 should fit in the case of the big block trans and you should be able to use the tail shaft and TS housing on the MH case. There were changes done over the years of production but what years had major changes I do not know....and also have no experience with the 4x4 transmissions at all.

 

[beanhead]

One engine had motorhome heads; the '73. It was out of a big coach, I think a Southwind or something like that. It had the nubs under the plug holes for the 'peanut' plugs. It was a ways back I don't remember what else..The '78 was out of a van-cab RV and had straight-plug 452s with standard 2.08/1.74 valves. I still have one from that engine, looks like any other 452 head.
Just for fun look up some of the low-comp 440 RV builds by "IQ52" if you haven't already!

 

[Bad B-rad]

The engine masters RV engine had 452's, they may have had the extra holes, but not the water pump mounting to the heads.

Thanks for the heads up on IQ52 builds. I have read a few with dyno tests, totally changed my mind a bit on smog 440's.
I had a sweet running 440 when I was 17/18, It came out of a 1977 truck, and I put it in a 1974 Charger.
I was young and had no cash to change the torsion bars. (the oil pan was like 100 bucks back then)The Charger was a 318 car,org, and I bet had highway rear.( it was not a 8 3/4)
So with the 440 in that car, it ran great, but wasn't all that fast. Car was a bit of a dog off the line, and came alive around 35 40MPH.
Again being young and new to Mopar, I blamed the low compression, and looked to hard at the factory 235hp ratting vs the 375hp Magnums.

 

[forphorty]

Just found this, but have not found the complete article:
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/440-winnebago-dyno-tuned-westech-performance/



I guess I am about to spend the 2 bucks a month, I thought maybe I could watch thru my cable subscription.

If you check out David Freiburgers june 23 Instagram post, They had a different RV 440 with mild cam, intake and headers make 364 hp. Added Trick flow heads and made 439 hp. Smaller chambers on the TFs boosted the comp to 8.0.

 

[Bad B-rad]

I would love to grab some TFS heads, I am just a broke bastard!!!
Only time will tell, as I have to check the health of my Motor Home 440, but I am leaning toward trying what they did in the engine masters build, only adding the 440 stealth heads.

 

[justavillain]

From what I understand, the '2' after the 440 means the block was cast from a mold that had been used once already....or the pattern has.

The 2 is the second revision of the casting! So the mold started to get worn they repaired them cleaned them up and then put them back in the line.

The shift usually ended up on the engine info pad but not always.

lower numbers for the revision is better. Less fixes to the mold

 

[Bad B-rad]

Well today I spent 4 & 1/2 hrs Pulling the 1973 Winnebago 20ft brave, out,
And loading it on a trailer to get it to my house.
It was just 12 foot tall, 13 foot 6 is legal limit her in NY.
The guy I got it from was the 2nd owner, and used it to tow his race car, it has tons of new parts, and when he parked it he even took metal mesh and covered the duel air cleaners snorkles and the duel exhaust pipes.
The inside the roof leaked and some animal crapped all over, so tomorrow I will be cleaning it.
I will post photos when it isnt so badly coved with turds.
I will have to find a Winnebago site as there are tons of good parts left, even after I snag the engine and trans, and dana 60.

 

[1967coronet]

Dbl. Check your #s lots of 73s had 72 drive trains. You may have a 72 steel crank engine.
Winnebago and others bought the running gear in bulk and then built on them.

My 76 cast crank 440 2 was a motor home engine, standard 452 heads and regular plugs and water pump.
Low miles , clean inside.

 

[Bad B-rad]

here is the dirty pig,

 

[Bad B-rad]

OK the bad:
I spent 4 to 5 hrs cleaning it out, I had to put on coveralls and wear a mask( a real respirator with the flap filters)
because of the turds, and wood/ insulation dust every where.
I used a broom and heavy duty dust pan, a shop vac, and ran my air line out to used compressed air where needed.
I had to change coveralls twice due to sweat, but now it is at least clean enough to work on and not get sick.
I pulled all couch/ bed mattress pillows out and blew them off, left them out side for the night.
So besides the turds, and the roof leaking on the wood paneling and rotting it a bit, it is in ok shape, I bet it was mint five years ago.(all new shocks, brake lines pad and rotors look new, 6 tires were new, he said kingpins are new)

Now the GOOD:
1) It is a 1973 440, only numbers on ID pad are J440T, then the assymbly date.
I dont see any "E" for cast crank, but I haven't looked at balancer yet.

2)It has headers on it with new duel exhaust, I bet they would fit in my stepside truck if I use it for that.

3) it has a LONG/car tailshaft!!!!

I also noticed no hole in the transmission bell house for setting timing? Maybe Its hidden a bit, but didnt notice it.
4) Inside the motor home I found set of plug wires, new cap and rotor, all new belts still in package, so looks like he took care of stuff, and he was ready just in case.
Also he had exhaust plugged and air inlet on air cleaner plugged with mesh screen to keep out the critters .
I washed her, just cause.

 

[Bad B-rad]

I just noticed if you look close on photo of Winnebago that is of the front, you can see the crap, on the dashboard.
I mean actual crap, freaking gross. I have no desire to rebuild the winnie, I just didnt want to have to work around the petrified poop.

I really need to get back to work on my Charger, but I may take sometime, to check out the front of the 440 just to see if its cast or steel crank, and also check out the rear, I am almost positive its a Dana, not sure if its 60 or 70.

 

[Bad B-rad]

Yesterday, I hooked up a battery to the RV, and nothing, no crank, no lights nothing.
I thought there may be a master disconnect somewhere, and there is a switch on the driver floor that reads main/reserve( I think)
But after following the battery cables from the battery box to the engine, I didn't know there is 2 house batteries and one engine battery, I had battery hooked to house, not engine.
After solving that issue, I hit the key, again nothing, so I pop the dog house, and jump the starter relay, she cranks over then his a "spot" and makes a nasty noise and cranks a bit slower in that spot, then once past that spot she cranks fast, and no noise, until she hits that same spot then once again, the noise, and slow crank, until past the spot.
The noise sounds to be from the starter, or the ring gear area.
To see if this is an engine issue, I climb under with a socket, and turn it over by hand, the 440 turns over as it should, and no noise.
While under I noticed the STEEL crank damper, so it is 100% not a cast crank.
It did not have the "E" on the ID pad, but I wanted to be sure.
The engine oil is full and clean, and I notice two fuel filters , one clear one under the body, near the fuel tank, and it also look clean.
I think I will change the engine oil, and filter, run the fuel line into a gas can, and try to fire her up.
I will add a cheap mechanical oil pressure gauge, so I know how the oil pressure is, and see how well she runs.
I also climbed under to check the rear, I can not tell, just by looking if its a Dana 60 or 70, but the tag on the rear cover looks to say 4.56.
I don't see a tag calling for limited slip fluid, but with any luck it will be a sure grip, and a 60. I will climb under and measure to find out for sure.
I also could not find any "motor home" headers offered for sale, so I am gonna guess they are truck headers.
I noticed the headers did not interfere with the throttle valve on the 727, as some car headers I have installed have.

So I have learned a few things, worth taking note of for all us looking to grab cheap 440's.
In a 1973 Winnebago "BRAVE" it has steel crank 440's with regular water pump, not the one going into the heads,(I think engine assymbly date is march 73) and the 727 looks to have the long car tail shaft, and regular slip yoke input on the driveshaft.
The front brakes also LOOK to be the slider calipers used on cars, I dont know for 100% yet but the bracket looks just like the on on cars, and the caliper are VERY similar looking, the rotors look to be larger, and thicker.