Well, I've had enough of this 440 Mystery Motor

[moparedtn]

Something else to consider here - if I rotated it by hand, that would mean counter-clockwise at the crank bolt, right?
Last time I did that, the crank bolt came loose. Just sayin'.

 

[coloradodave]

Something else to consider here - if I rotated it by hand, that would mean counter-clockwise at the crank bolt, right?
Last time I did that, the crank bolt came loose. Just sayin'.

No, the crank rotates CW as viewed from in front of the motor.

 

[moparedtn]

Thanks, Dave.

 

[e-440]

Rebuild what you have is the best solution. If you were closer I would do it for you. Don't throw out your 440 as it can always be fixed as long as it has not blown apart.

 

[Force Fed Mopar]

Might have been mentioned already, but I wonder if it spun a cam bearing.

 

[miller]

If you just use a pre-oil tool, off a drill motor, you can tell about the oil flow, and if it's getting there.
And even turning the motor over by hand, you should be able to see the tappets rotating...won't tell you if tappet clearance is right.

 

[moparedtn]

Rebuild what you have is the best solution. If you were closer I would do it for you. Don't throw out your 440 as it can always be fixed as long as it has not blown apart.

Appreciate that a lot.
Sometimes, though, it's more economical to replace than rebuild, especially if this one has some issues - which apparently it does.

 

[moparedtn]

Might have been mentioned already, but I wonder if it spun a cam bearing.

That's a valid question, since sometimes it would "behave" and then go on to fail later - unless that was simply new parts with no miles working for a bit, then failing as the blocks' issues wore them quickly.

 

[IQ52]

This poor engine has wiped out cams for a long time and has never been torn down and cleaned.

Probably dirt has been killing this engine from the beginning and now metal particles all over the inside of it are insuring it's demise. And.....I still think the Scotchbrite did it no favors in September.

 

[moper]

x2...

 

[oldbee]

You could have a cam bearing spinning like said above, but that's extremely unlikely I think. A rebuild has to turn out cheaper.

 

[oldbee]

You're probably gonna kick yourself in the butt when you find out problem; but then you'll laugh about it years later; I hope.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

You could have a cam bearing spinning like said above, but that's extremely unlikely I think. A rebuild has to turn out cheaper.

This thread has been around for so long now, the same answers are going around for the third time !!...............8-) ................MO

 

[kiwigtx]

This thread has been around for so long now, the same answers are going around for the third time !!...............8-) ................MO

Yank that engine out and tear it to pieces....making observations and notes along the way....please.

 

[Budnicks]

1st I have to say
I didn't read every word of every post or threads links added
BUT;
Like IQ52 & other professional engine builder have said &
most of the other members here too...

Take it apart, completely tear it done completely,
inspect & clean every orifice & every inch of that block,
have it steamed out & pressure washed before you proceed

it could be a litany of issues

from bad or improperly installed camshaft bearings,

to bad parts {even if they are new}

to bad or the wrong oil to completely wrong break-in procedures
{regardless of the types of oil used}

to even maybe not priming it before starting

to maybe rocker shafts installed upside down
not oiling stuff or rockers & pushrods etc. properly
resulting in spreading various & numerous metallic particulates
throughout the engine "multiple times now it sounds like"

oil pan to oil pick-up clearances wrong too close or too far way,
starving it of oil etc.

or a combined total of a few or all the above...

dirt & shavings/metallic particulate would be my 1st guess

I'd also say please don't take this in the wrong way, it's not intended as such
BUT; sometimes tough love/brutal truth/honesty is certainly needed...
"stop doing anything else, no more redundant advise is needed "
1st tear it {whole engine} completely apart, take it out of the car
IMO also have a knowledgeable person by your side,
who knows what they are looking at & what they are doing
especially if you don't know, all the ins & outs of proper engine assembly...

Again;
Clean it &/or have it professionally cleaned, not some half a$$ clean job,
it should be where you'd eat off of it, with no hesitations, spotless dirt &
metal shavings "especially" free, clean the oil pump, the pick-up too...
It should be able to still be rebuilt, unless that there's some unforeseen issue,
we all don't know, you haven't shared or you/we have overlooked...

I'd say also get a factory Service Manual {if you don't have one already}
& follow it to the letter...
Seek a professional or a fellow members help, if you don't know...

Good luck & Happy Moparing

Glad to see Cancer hasn't stopped you too...

 

[miller]

Might be hard to swallow, but Budnicks is absolutely correct, fully agree.

Without going all the way into a motor, and per say...doing it right the first time...you have no idea what's in there.
And, I'll fully agree what you said...there's some motors around, too used, AND abused, their not worth messing with. There's only one way to find out.

 

[moparedtn]

This poor engine has wiped out cams for a long time and has never been torn down and cleaned.
Probably dirt has been killing this engine from the beginning and now metal particles all over the inside of it are insuring it's demise. And.....I still think the Scotchbrite did it no favors in September.

x2...

Perhaps, but I've been quite steadfast in my procedures and in changing oil a LOT every time I've worked on it. Oil pan has even been off a couple times.
I'm convinced at this point that whatever maladies the engine has, it has had since I acquired it and I've only been throwing away money and time treating symptoms, not the disease.
I won't be doing any more of that. In my position in this life at this point, I don't have much more of either to spare. It's just that simple.

You could have a cam bearing spinning like said above, but that's extremely unlikely I think. A rebuild has to turn out cheaper.

You're probably gonna kick yourself in the butt when you find out problem; but then you'll laugh about it years later; I hope.

From your fingertips to God's ears, my friend.

This thread has been around for so long now, the same answers are going around for the third time !!...............8-) ................MO

This particular thread isn't that old, but the chase to cure this POS engine sure has, granted.

Yank that engine out and tear it to pieces....making observations and notes along the way....please.
View attachment 384710

I know everyone is dying of curiosity at this point to find out what's wrong here.
I admit to a certain amount of morbid curiosity myself.
What is even more urgent to me, however, is to get on with things.
Only three things are certain at this point in that pursuit:
1. Time is of the essence and not by choice
2. I'm not going to spend any more money or effort with half-measures on this particular engine - it's outta there as it exists now, whether to be totally re-done or to be replaced.
It's made it quite clear something is dead wrong in the short block somewhere.
3. Whatever the answer is (replacement short block or re-do this one) will have to be done really economically and in short order.

Gentlemen - what I'm trying to do here is to summon up enough gumption from what is an almost empty tank to tackle this thing one last time.
It's gonna hurt and it's surely going to be the last time I can.
I'm doing so in the face of what amounts to be hurdles - most of my energy is still taken up keeping gainful employment (what I do for a living gets quite physical at times) and dealing with all the wonderful maladies that are part and parcel of still being above dirt. I wouldn't wish what the docs call my "new normal" on anyone, but it beats hell out of being dead.
I'm a big fella (250 lbs.) and quite used to having enough strength to do anything I ever wanted to do - being the guy that helps other folks when called upon, a rock of sorts.

I am not used to, nor have I accepted, not being that guy now - despite reality.
I don't like asking for or needing help, hate it.

Finally, I DO greatly appreciate all the help, advice, consulting going on here.
It's good to know that although I am pretty much alone out here on the ridge, I'm not really.

 

[moparedtn]

1st I have to say
I didn't read every word of every post or threads links added
BUT;
Like IQ52 & other professional engine builder have said &
most of the other members here too...
Take it apart, completely tear it done completely,
inspect & clean every orifice & every inch of that block,
have it steamed out & pressure washed before you proceed
it could be a litany of issues...

Hiya budnicks, thanks for responding. Your wisdom always appreciated.
Defensively, I'll reply to your points here:

from bad or improperly installed camshaft bearings,
to bad parts {even if they are new}

Could be, sure.

to bad or the wrong oil to completely wrong break-in procedures
{regardless of the types of oil used}
to even maybe not priming it before starting

Naw, lots of research went into proper oil once the first cam wiped.
Break-in procedures followed to a T, at least on the work I did. Can't say anything about bottom end, of course, since I've never disturbed it and didn't build it and the fella that did ain't talking (RIP).

to maybe rocker shafts installed upside down

Nope. Not a chance.

not oiling stuff or rockers & pushrods etc. properly
resulting in spreading various & numerous metallic particulates
throughout the engine "multiple times now it sounds like"

On my work, again not a chance. Proper break-in lubes, oil, procedures, etc.
followed to a Tee.
On the rest of the motor, who knows? At least it has good oil pressure down there. The rest, meh...*shrugs*

oil pan to oil pick-up clearances wrong too close or too far way,
starving it of oil etc.

Nope. I dropped the pan and checked all that before putting the engine in there to begin with. Pickup doing its' thing, good oil pressure always.

I'd also say please don't take this in the wrong way, it's not intended as such BUT; sometimes tough love/brutal truth/honesty is certainly needed...
"stop doing anything else, no more redundant advise is needed "
1st tear it {whole engine} completely apart, take it out of the car
IMO also have a knowledgeable person by your side,
who knows what they are looking at & what they are doing
especially if you don't know, all the ins & outs of proper engine assembly...
Again;
Clean it &/or have it professionally cleaned, not some half a$$ clean job,
it should be where you'd eat off of it, with no hesitations, spotless dirt &
metal shavings "especially" free, clean the oil pump, the pick-up too...
It should be able to still be rebuilt, unless that there's some unforeseen issue,
we all don't know, you haven't shared or you/we have overlooked...

Not going to do another thing with it still in the car, as I've said.
That's the "done with this" part of this thread.
It either gets re-done from scratch or replaced.

I'd say also get a factory Service Manual {if you don't have one already}
& follow it to the letter...

Got one, always have.

Seek a professional or a fellow members help, if you don't know...

What I'm doing here.

Good luck & Happy Moparing
Glad to see Cancer hasn't stopped you too...

Thanks.
It surely has taken some chunks outta me, but I ain't done yet.
Neither is this car - way too many hours spent on it to give up now.

 

[moparedtn]

OK gents, finally feeling up to heading out to the garage. First order of business is pulling valve covers for a look.
I'll post pics of anything of note and if you post suggestions while I'm out here, I'll try to answer those in "real time" as well.

 

[moparedtn]

Drivers' valve cover off. Rockers all snug, no sign of collapsed lifters or wiped lobes. Oil evident on all rockers.
Passenger side now. Ditto on comments. All appears well.