Well, I've had enough of this 440 Mystery Motor

[moparedtn]

Nobody yet? OK, moving on...
Spark plugs removed.

 

[moparedtn]

Anyone seeing what I'm seeing with the plugs? Dang things only have a couple hundred miles on them BTW.

 

[khryslerkid]

Anyone seeing what I'm seeing with the plugs? Dang things only have a couple hundred miles on them BTW.

To me, the center plugs look like they're running lean. I don't know what fuel you're running. I like to see a little tan color.

Looking at the pics of the valve covers being removed, things look normal. Did you try to fire it up and listen and watch what's going on? (I know it makes a mess)

Also when you first heard the noise, did you take note of the oil pressure? (I don't remember if you did)

 

[moparedtn]

To me, the center plugs look like they're running lean. I don't know what fuel you're running. I like to see a little tan color.

Looking at the pics of the valve covers being removed, things look normal. Did you try to fire it up and listen and watch what's going on? (I know it makes a mess)

Also when you first heard the noise, did you take note of the oil pressure? (I don't remember if you did)

Yeah, definite color differences between middle plugs and outboards, agree.
Nope, no oil-flingin' start up.
Yep, instinct to look at oil pressure gauge for me. No difference noted when it started acting up again, always good.
I know I had a hell of a time getting intake bolts started when assembling before.
Now I wonder about intake leaks?

 

[moparedtn]

Speaking of which.... Intake off!

 

[khryslerkid]

Nope, no oil-flingin' start up.

You started it?

Is you pics of the "intake off" now?

 

[moparedtn]

You started it?

Is you pics of the "intake off" now?

No, I did not start the car at any point today.
Yes, these pics are being taken live as I tear it down right now.

 

[khryslerkid]

No, I did not start the car at any point today.
Yes, these pics are being taken live as I tear it down right now.

Looking at the pics the cam lobes don't look too bad. The two at the back of the engine, looks like the wear pattern is off center. But that might be the glare in the picture.

I was hoping you would have started it with the covers off to see or hear what was going on.

Glad to see you are out in the garage!

What engine oil are you useing?

 

[moparedtn]

Looking at the pics the cam lobes don't look too bad. The two at the back of the engine, looks like the wear pattern is off center. But that might be the glare in the picture.

I was hoping you would have started it with the covers off to see or hear what was going on.

Glad to see you are out in the garage!

What engine oil are you useing?

Yeah, I was out there anyways.
When I took off that 500 lb. factory intake, about broke my back.
Called it a halt right there, cleaned up.

Oil being used is DRIVEN HR (high zinc/ZDDP) along with the Comp Cams break-in additive still in there from last assembly, giving it that reddish tint.

 

[khryslerkid]

When I took off that 500 lb. factory intake, about broke my back.
Called it a halt right there, cleaned up.

I hear ya. They will pick your feet off the floor!

I use my cherry picker every chance I get. I remember r and r transmissions, by hand, laying on my back. Not anymore!

 

[moparedtn]

I hear ya. They will pick your feet off the floor!

I use my cherry picker every chance I get. I remember r and r transmissions, by hand, laying on my back. Not anymore!

View attachment 388245

Yep, I did this engine with mine by myself last time around. Only way to fly.
If this engine winds up coming out again, I will invest in a transmission jack, though. I don't want to do the combo engine and trans removal/installation again - that's hard by your lonesome without banging hell out of the car.

On this project right now, though, I'm thinking I'm going to go ahead and fetch a new aluminum intake and install it before I go any further.
What the heck, can't hurt to try, right?
What I thought I was hearing as a header leak or ticking in the engine before may just have been this intake leaking??

 

[Ski 61701]

Before you go any farther Id do a compression check. A couple of the plugs look either a little lean or couple look a little rich. Get some baseline info, cam doesnt look too bad, although the wear pattern on a couple of rear lobes look a little close to the edge.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Looks like the last cam change did not solve the problem with the plugs burning clean also looks like the same cylinders as last time. The heads were done recently so it should not be a valve problem.
The only thing you have not had apart is the short block. Time to get it out and get it done.
Just curious you were offered help doing this is not your health more inportant than pride? Do not take that the wrong way a lot of us are the same way but there comes a time when we all need help.

 

[oldbee]

Some of us are just pig-headed and want to figure it ourselves.Been there/done that!!Reminds me of years ago at GM dealership,rattling noise in top of small block,kept moving around side to side. Pulled intake&heads,a few minor dings on top of pistons( what caused this???) nothing found,cleaned & put back together. No more noise; less than 5000mi under warranty; never heard anything else about it ??????? Forgetting all the previous posts- carb/intake flow problem with lean middles & rich #7&8 plugs? Lobes look good to me..

 

[moparedtn]

Before you go any farther Id do a compression check. A couple of the plugs look either a little lean or couple look a little rich. Get some baseline info, cam doesnt look too bad, although the wear pattern on a couple of rear lobes look a little close to the edge.

I did a compression test last year before the head swap. All cylinders were within 5 of each other, averaging 130.
The engine has never used oil either.

 

[moparedtn]

Looks like the last cam change did not solve the problem with the plugs burning clean also looks like the same cylinders as last time. The heads were done recently so it should not be a valve problem.
The only thing you have not had apart is the short block. Time to get it out and get it done.
Just curious you were offered help doing this is not your health more inportant than pride? Do not take that the wrong way a lot of us are the same way but there comes a time when we all need help.

It's the same cam, actually. It got swapped out way back when the engine immediately wiped the cam I got it with (some sort of Mopar purpleshaft - sounded like a 509 when it ran).
It probably would be more accurate to say the last head change hasn't solved much - but then, the engine did run and sound ok for a little bit, well, as ok as it ever has anyways.
Then it started misbehaving on the way home and I parked it, determined that this was it - I'd had enough.

I haven't asked for help yet because I haven't needed it yet, certainly not for this little bit I started today.
If this critter has to come out, then I'll start hollering.

 

[oldbee]

I do remember drilling out intake bolt holes to 7/16" to compensate for slightly lowered heads when they were cut to be flat. I don't remember the particulars when going to a mech. lifter cam; maybe I got lucky with pushrod length, see a lot of posts about that problem on some of these posts. 'IT' was WAY simpler 'back then'.!!!! I still think you have a 'simple' problem that has floated past everyone.(?)

 

[moparedtn]

Some of us are just pig-headed and want to figure it ourselves.Been there/done that!!Reminds me of years ago at GM dealership,rattling noise in top of small block,kept moving around side to side. Pulled intake&heads,a few minor dings on top of pistons( what caused this???) nothing found,cleaned & put back together. No more noise; less than 5000mi under warranty; never heard anything else about it ??????? Forgetting all the previous posts- carb/intake flow problem with lean middles & rich #7&8 plugs? Lobes look good to me..

Pretty much, yessir. It appears as much to me as well.

I was quite relieved to see what I saw today, actually, at least as far as the rockers/pushrods/cam/lifters go. Nothing much screams out at me with any of those and there is plenty of evidence to support that oil is flowing where it's supposed to, at least from the "ponding" present.

I swear it looks like the intake is leaking in the middle, both sides?

Rewind:
When I put the 906's on there, everything went great in there and the new Comp pushrods seemed to work fine as well on top of the existing Comp cam and lifters.
Nothing fought me and it all reassembled great....
until it was time to install the factory cast iron intake.
That sumbeech fought the living hell out of me.
I had a Mopar performance intake set with both composite gaskets as well as the bathtub with block-off for the heat riser.
I first tried installing it with both sets of composites and the bathtub, to no avail;
bolt holes would not line up side to side.
I took one set of composites out, still no dice.
Finally took all the composites out, leaving the metal bathtub only and it STILL fought me like hell.
A few hours of cussing and prying later and I finally managed to get it to take all bolts, but just barely.
Factory intake has very little play in the bolt holes and it was quite evident the machining of the 906's was making it a chore.

 

[moparedtn]

I do remember drilling out intake bolt holes to 7/16" to compensate for slightly lowered heads when they were cut to be flat. I don't remember the particulars when going to a mech. lifter cam; maybe I got lucky with pushrod length, see a lot of posts about that problem on some of these posts. 'IT' was WAY simpler 'back then'.!!!! I still think you have a 'simple' problem that has floated past everyone.(?)

I agree....and I'm now thinking of the only thing I know of that fought me when putting these heads on - the intake - especially since the valvetrain looks ok, oil is laying everywhere it should, nothing is physically damaged, etc.
I think my installation of the 906's may have actually cured previous issues with oiling up top, actually - previous owner put those 518's on there and they could have had issues with clogged ports, or he installed the rockers/shafts wrong, or who knows?
All I know right now is that things look a lot better in there than I expected - or ever have before, for that matter.

 

[moparedtn]

The way I see it, I was going to replace the intake with an aluminum one anyways so what the heck, won't hurt to slap one on there and see what's what.

Those of you who followed along my thread when I replaced the heads back then may remember I said one thing rather adamantly, something along the lines of "if this intake ever has to come off again, I'm replacing it".
Well, here I am.