Got the 572 back, Now lets find some power

[PRHeads]

I guess I should have been clearer……..

I was asking 2quick if he got signed up for DW…….since that’s what his build was intended for.

 

[2quick]

Did not sign up this year. I think I’m just gonna wing it. I’ve read that in all the years of drag week they’ve never turned anyone away that showed up at the gate. Many people sign up. Lots of people drop out like I did last year I’m gonna let the car tell me, if I want to do it this year or wait till next year. If I feel like everything has come together I’ll just pack up and head there and hope they let me in. I tried planning it last year. It just didn’t work out. I’m not gonna do that again lost a bunch of money.

 

[PRHeads]

Well, you should have plenty of time now

 

[PRHeads]

Motor back in the car yet?

 

[2quick]

This week hopefully...

 

[andyf]

As some may know, my brand new 572 was sent back to INDY to fix a balancing issue. Its is finally fixed, and was run on their dyno for a few hours to break in, and a couple power pulls were done. It made 781hp and 680tq. I am hoping with the right intake and throttle body these numbers go up. The motor was run using a untouched 440-2 intake and an 950 carb. The cam is an EFI grind and does not like a carb for power is what I was told.

The basics:
Indy MAXX 572
440-1 345cnc 1.5 rockers
11.5:1
.285/.296 @ .050 dur
.726/.707 lift
R112+4

So for fueling and timing I run Holley HP EFI. I was running a F.A.S.T throttle body with a 4150 flange but recently purchased the a Holley Terminator X 4500 Throttle Body as seen below:

• 4500 Units Contain 8 Injectors, and Support up to 1500 HP Naturally Aspirated or 1250 HP with Forced Induction
• 2.125” Throttle Plates, Flow 1440 CFM for Large Cubic Inch Engines

Holley EFI 534-302 Holley EFI Terminator X Stealth 4500 Throttle Body - Black

I need an intake for this set up! Indy wants me to get their max ported 440-3x.....
This is a street car
What are my options for good power and drivability with TBI fuel injection. Dont wan to give up power but needs to have decent street manners. Is the X manifold to big? Would I be better of buying a used 440-3 and having it ported by Wilson? INDY wants A $1000 to port any manifold they offer. Would Wilson provide a better product for nearly same money?

Did you buy an intake yet? If not I'd probably go with the Trick Flow 4500 intake. It is a very nice intake right out of the box. The Terminator X will work nice with that engine once it is tuned. You'll need some custom tuning for the Terminator to work with that size of engine as well as that size of cam. What are you using for a distributor? You should install a Holley Hyperspark distributor with the Terminator so you an take advantage of full digital timing. The Hyperspark gives you start retard, rev limiter, digital vacuum advance, high speed retard (or advance), etc. I assume you have some sort of CD ignition box already? If so, the Terminator should plug right in to your ignition box.
I would've expected more than 781 hp from a 572 but it all depends on heads, cam, carb, etc. Sometimes the combination isn't all happy. The cam is pretty big for EFI so you'll need to work with a tuner to get it dialed in. FAST Man EFI is the best in the business but you'll need a laptop and wifi for him to do a remote tune. If you're not set up for a remote tune you might be able to find a local guy to work with. I tune a lot of EFI race cars and it is fairly easy to dial them in once you know what you're doing.

 

[andyf]

I had a really nice Wilson ported Super Victor on my 514 inch dyno mule. That engine was close to 900 hp with EZ heads. The intake picked up a lot of power of any as cast intake I tested it against but it did cost a bunch of money. I'll attach a few pictures.

 

[stage3]

That engine was close to 900 hp with EZ heads.

very nice !
what cam did u use to make that power ?

 

[RemCharger]

Interesting, I thought the hot tech was to knife edge the dividers. Here's the indy I cleaned up. It was the early one with the unfinished plunge cuts

 

[andyf]

very nice !
what cam did u use to make that power ?

I tried a bunch of different cams in that engine over the years. Last cam I had was Crane 481 lift lobe with 282 duration on the intake. I was using 1.85 rockers on the intake and 1.70 on the exhaust.
I think the cam before that was just as good if not better. It was a Crane 452 lobe with 280/286 duration. Same rocker arms. Sometimes more lift and more duration makes less power. The trick is to find what the engine wants.

 

[andyf]

Interesting, I thought the hot tech was to knife edge the dividers. Here's the indy I cleaned up. It was the early one with the unfinished plunge cuts View attachment 1661582

I don't think the knife edge works as well as the rounded nose but I don't port intake manifolds. I was interested to see how far Wilson extended the dividers into the plenum on the intake they did for me. That added a lot of material to that intake. I think it picked up around 30 hp from the mods.

 

[andyf]

I converted that 514 over to EFI and ran some dyno tests for a magazine article. It made close to 900 hp with EFI using Q16 race fuel. Using Q16 turned out to be a mistake but that is how you learn.

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/holley-hp-efi-install/

 

[dvw]

Knife edging is not good. A rounded edge is prefered. An easy way to get a good edge is with a long strip of crocus cloth thru the pair of ports. As well as thru the carb opening from each port.
Doug

 

[stage3]

Sometimes more lift and more duration makes less power. The trick is to find what the engine wants.

yeah i read where u were saying that u were making over 800 with a cam in the 260 range...

 

[andyf]

yeah i read where u were saying that u were making over 800 with a cam in the 260 range...

It all depends on how good the heads are. Really good heads don't need a big cam to make big power. We had a pump gas engine on the dyno recently that made over 1000 hp with a hyd roller cam. Intake duration was 270@050. Engine idled very smoothly but when you pushed the throttle open it twisted the dyno needle right around the dial.

My old 505 made 800 hp with a Jones 266/272 solid roller. That was with Indy EZ heads and a cast intake. I could've pushed that engine well past 800 hp with a Wilson intake and some other engine mods.

 

[stage3]

It all depends on how good the heads are. Really good heads don't need a big cam to make big power. We had a pump gas engine on the dyno recently that made over 1000 hp with a hyd roller cam. Intake duration was 270@050. Engine idled very smoothly but when you pushed the throttle open it twisted the dyno needle right around the dial.

My old 505 made 800 hp with a Jones 266/272 solid roller. That was with Indy EZ heads and a cast intake. I could've pushed that engine well past 800 hp with a Wilson intake and some other engine mods.

thats really good power from cams in the 260-70 range, after reading your results elsewhere i bought a cam with 272-276@ .050 on a 110 LSA with 11.2-1 with Tf 270's at 505 CI....computer dyno likes it we will see what happens. all parts destined for my mega block hopefully real soon .

 

[andyf]

thats really good power from cams in the 260-70 range, after reading your results elsewhere i bought a cam with 272-276@ .050 on a 110 LSA with 11.2-1 with Tf 270's at 505 CI....computer dyno likes it we will see what happens. all parts destined for my mega block hopefully real soon .

That engine should make around 700 hp if everything else is good. I'd use a Trick Flow intake with a Dominator if you're racing. If you are street driving you could run a 440-2 intake and an 850 DP or something in that range.

The TF270 heads will make up to 800 hp but everything has to be dialed in just perfect. The typical "bolt together" type of engine with those parts is usually in the 700 to 725 range.

 

[stage3]

That engine should make around 700 hp if everything else is good. I'd use a Trick Flow intake with a Dominator if you're racing. If you are street driving you could run a 440-2 intake and an 850 DP or something in that range.

The TF270 heads will make up to 800 hp but everything has to be dialed in just perfect. The typical "bolt together" type of engine with those parts is usually in the 700 to 725 range.

here's an interesting thought on making peak HP i clipped ..IQ52 posted this ..

"" it made 680 HP at 12:1 AFR, 760 HP AT 11:1 AFR and the 840 HP @ 10:1 AFR. I think with some more fuel it still had some horsepower in it.""
at .700 lift its real close to the TF270 at 355...Gained 160 HP just by changing the AFR number by 2 points !!

The intake flow followed along the advertised flow until .600-.800".

...............312cc
Lift........2.25 intake............1.81 exhaust

.100..........89.........................65
.200.........161.......................118
.300.........210.......................160
.400.........256.......................214
.500.........299.......................242........270 w/pipe
.600.........335.......................260........294
.700.........360.......................276........301
.800.........372

 

[dvw]

There is no way that changing the actual F/A ratio from a real 12-1 to 10-1 would add power. Nor would it add 160 hp. Now maybe if it was misfiring at 14.8-15.0-1 down to 12.8-13.2 there could've been a big gain. When the last time anybody has seen a N/A engine make peak at 10-1?.
Doug

 

[stage3]

There is no way that changing the actual F/A ratio from a real 12-1 to 10-1 would add power. Nor would it add 160 hp. Now maybe if it was misfiring at 14.8-15.0-1 down to 12.8-13.2 there could've been a big gain. When the last time anybody has seen a N/A engine make peak at 10-1?.
Doug

i hear you,,,,here's the thread page 1 half way down.

Indy EZ/440-1, Victor, RPM Perf or Stealth Heads for 440????