Anyone install Vintage Air in a 1967 Coronet?

[Billccm]

Okay guys (and @Kern Dog vintage air expert) here is where I'm at on this project.

Friend's brother who retired after 31 years as a Ford master mechanic came over to vacuum and charge. We watched the gauge at 28 inches of vacuum for a little over a half hour and he called it good. Using a scale he charged 1.81 pounds precisely. He sort of measured the high and low lines temperature and said all good. I didn't have the ducts hooked up, but he felt the evaporator expansion and said it was really good and cold. I paid him for his time and reassembled the car and connected the ducts.

The glove box liner instructions is a joke and without some Dremel fitting it could never have worked. Doesn't anyone at vintage air try to install this stuff?

So test drive time. Really mild weather here in Tucson and it's actually in the mid 70s, but I rolled up all windows and placed the AC on mid fan speed dash vents.

It's not really cold.

Back home I take a temp gun and measure the dash vents.
Temp lever at far left: 54 degrees
Temp lever at far right: 94 degrees

I call the guy who charged it this morning. He says grab the copper tube on the heater box and see if it's cold. It's so cold I can't keep touching it. He says "well that's a blend door issue call vintage air".

I sent a email to vintage air with a video of the compressor cycling. Not sure if there's anything else I can do to troubleshoot?

Thanks for any help.

Video link below

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AksXImgz5jdygqku0VUFnHaSaNI9tg

 

[Kern Dog]

I'd love to give you sound advice but I am FAR from an expert. I've installed ONE Vintage Air system and ONE Classic Auto Air setup.

 

[Billccm]

I'd love to give you sound advice but I am FAR from an expert. I've installed ONE Vintage Air system and ONE Classic Auto Air setup.

I consider you an expert and I would appreciate any advice from you.

 

[Kern Dog]

Randy had to come to my rescue when I got in a spot. He owns the green challenger next to my Charger...

My own system felt fine in cool weather but the real test was how cold the A/C was blowing when the ambient air got hot.
On the way south from Sacramento to Modesto last Thursday, my A/C blew warm. I charged it a month ago but the weather was in the 60s and it was hard to know if it was blowing cold. You see, the unit needs a temperature differential to be able to work. The refrigerant enters the evaporator and passes through an expansion valve where it rapidly cools down. In my car, Randy first suspected a bad heater control valve. After the trip to the car show and all of that, I stopped at his shop on the way home. He hooked up the gauges and found that my "low side" was lower than it should be so he thought that maybe my expansion valve was blocked. These things are not what I would have thought of to check. Experience with these systems helps a person develop diagnostic skills. I would like to know more on how to determine the reasons for why these systems don't perform right but as it is now, I'd just be guessing. You could clamp off the flow to the heater control valve and see if the air starts to blow colder. That would tell you that the valve may be stuck open, even partially. After that, my skills drop off.
What I do know is the basic function of the system. I figured ways to route wires, lines and hoses to where they look and function well. As far as diagnosing and repairing defective components, that I'd need to learn over time.

 

[Billccm]

Below is the reply from Vintage Air. Not an expert or even an amateur on charging AC. We didn't have a fan blowing into the condenser. I do know he raised the idle slight while charging. Not sure what to do next. Most shops around me just don't want to look at it. The one shop that is willing to look at it is $265 an hour labor.


The best indication of performance is the high and low side pressures and the vent temps.

If you are getting 50°F at idle then you could squeeze a few more degrees, ideally the vent temps in the best conditions would be in the low to mid 40’s

I have attached the charging spec. sheet that will show the ideal pressures and the test conditions for the vehicle when servicing.

With the vehicle in the proper test conditions what is the high and low side pressure? The low side at 12-20 Psi is the sweet spot.

Also make sure that you have a strong fan blowing air across the condenser when pulling the readings. And note the pressures at 1500 RPM.

If it will take some time to pull the pressures there is a simple test you can do, locate both heater hoses feeding the heater core and completely clamp them off, then take a test drive to see if the vent temps got cooler?

If they do not then I would pull the high and low side pressures to verify the capacity is correct, but if the vent temps improve (colder) after clamping off the heater hoses we can dig into why this is happening.

 

[Kern Dog]

This is the chart that Randy posted in my own thread:

 

[Billccm]

Okay for whatever reason my mechanic friend is gun shy about possibly overcharging the system. From advice I received from a few other AC guys I asked him to add a few more ounces. So we put around 6 ounces more in which is about half a can of R134. We had the fan blowing high speed on the grill and brought the idle up. Vintage Air said 12 to 20 is optimal and we seemed to do well at 15.

The center vents are around 44F and the outer vents are 47F. This is about 10 degrees lower than I had on Friday. Time will tell.

 

[Kern Dog]

The CAA instructions from my kit were adamant that the system is to take only 1.8 lbs of refrigerant and that adding more will not make the air blow any colder. I don't know enough about these systems to dispute them. I told the shop that charged Dwayne's car what the capacity was for his, I thought it was about the same. I never asked what the pressures were and I've never put my gauges on his car to see for myself.
Good luck.

 

[Billccm]

The CAA instructions from my kit were adamant that the system is to take only 1.8 lbs of refrigerant and that adding more will not make the air blow any colder.

I agree and the Vintage Air instructions say the same. The guy who is doing this for me is a retired Ford Master Mechanic and he also says that overcharging is a big NO NO. Having said that I have two other friends who have installed Vintage Air in several Tri 5 Chevys and they claim there is a 'sweet spot' where you get the coldest air. Like you I don't have an intuitive feel for this technique or AC charging.

I will say again that the coldest air I had on Friday was about 54F and today I am about 10 degrees colder and if that holds I will be happy.

 

[gtx6970]

Is there a way to confirm the blend air door is opening and closing fully ?

 

[Billccm]

Is there a way to confirm the blend air door is opening and closing fully ?

Not really. There is a calibration routine that you activate with a jumper to ground off the Heater Box ECU. You can tell the doors and actuators are moving through the ranges as you slide the controls. That's about it when it comes to blend door operation.

 

[gtx6970]

its only upper 80s today. I would think it would / should get cooler than mid 40s outlet temps

 

[Billccm]

its only upper 80s today. I would think it would / should get cooler than mid 40s outlet temps

I agree, but I used my Grand Marquis as a reference and at MAX AC High FAN it too blows around 44F.

 

[Billccm]

its only upper 80s today. I would think it would / should get cooler than mid 40s outlet temps

Thermometer on my back porch was showing 92F about 3 hours ago.

 

[Billccm]

Reply from Vintage Air



Bill,

44°F is great, this will provide a very comfortable cabin when in the heat of the summer.

Let me provide one small trick to squeeze a few more degrees

Directly below the blower motor you will see a small copper tube that goes into the evap. case. Grab the copper tube where it enters the case and pull the tube out by apx 3/8”- ½”

What this does is trick the probe to read a slightly higher temp and ask the compressor to cycle for just a bit longer than before. This often times will drop the temp a few degrees.

The picture is the unit upside down, the tube to look for would be below the blower motor housing.

 

[Billccm]

Photo from vintage air

 

[blue69runner]

Yes, have to cut fire wall for AC lines in and out. I got a classic air on my runner. Let us know how well it works.

 

[Billccm]

Maybe apples and oranges, but drove my 2012 mustang today and realized it has one of the best AC systems of all of my cars; at least it feels that way. Small cabin area helps I guess.

Anyhow I had to check it's AC temps. Thermometer on the back porch was showing 86F. Max AC and fan at mid range. I measured 44.7F three times in a row. So, for now I'm good with the coronet blowing 44F.

 

[YY1]

Yep, that's good.

I'm happy with my stock but converted to 134 system blowing 48.

 

[Encswsm]

Thanks for the write up. Its full of great info. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger and buy a AC unit for my 66 Charger. My issue is even though its a AC car from the factory one of the previous owners put a 1973 360 in it. Didn't they put LA block 318's in 67 Chargers?I guess I'm going to have send Vintage AC a email to see if a 67 318 system would work.Thanks for the write up it was good.