1968-70 star-wheel door latch variants - identification?

[cudak888]

This morning, I pulled the door panel on my '68 Satellite to replace the door latch with one from eBay, as the original had worn to the point where the plastic tab was no longer retracting enough to allow the door to fully latch (it'd catch one pawl, then fail to latch when the second star wheel would slide into the striker).

I found a slight difference between the original latch and the used latch from eBay:

The original '68 latch has an additional lever that prevents the inside door lever from releasing the door if the push button is down:

...while the eBay latch has no such lever, allowing the door to unlatch and the push button to pop up automatically if the inside door lever is pulled, more or less like most Fords of the '70s.

I couldn't find any information about the differences online (doesn't help when Mopar used multiple types of latches on the B-bodies, and different style latches on the A-bodies of the same period - trying to Google these things is opening Pandora's box), other than this comment from 268RTs4ME in another thread about door latch variants:

Pt. # 2862752-3 68 coronet ,sat. bel. charger used before jan 68.. Pt # 2935004-5 used after jan 68. The back doors latches of a 4 door are diff.

I made the mistake of not looking at the part number on these latches (I still have the passenger's side in the car and will look at it), but I'm also curious whether this is the revision or not. For all I know, these latches might be for the back door, but I can't find any photos of those either.

Any insights?

One other thing too - I'd really appreciate it if someone has a photo (better yet, has for sale - will put a Wanted ad out in a few minutes) of the 4-door-specific linkage between the lock cylinder and the latch mechanism? I now know why the genius who worked on this car before never gave me the door keys, only trunk and ignition - the linkage was never there for the lock cylinders to work in the first place:

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

No pictures, but this gets a bit more interesting. The latch in the car has a built in clip that snaps around the lock button rod to secure it to the topmost pivot on the latch. The clip pivots on its mount; it's barely visible in photo #2 in the original post, pointing downward from its usual orientation when installed.

The eBay latch uses a clip that simply bites the end of the rod. Now, I figured this would work as-is, but the second time I pulled up on the door button since doing the door, the whole rod simply popped straight off. Is there a difference in the rod design? Perhaps a chamfered ring around the rod's edge to help the clip to bite in? Lousy clip?

-Kurt

 

[pro-streeter]

Have you been able to resolve your problem? I did find out that the linkage that connects the latch to the door handle is a different length on a four-door. I have different style door latches as you have pictured. Have had many of the same questions.

- - - Updated - - -

Have you been able to resolve your problem? I did find out that the linkage that connects the latch to the door handle is a different length on a four-door. I have different style door latches as you have pictured. Have had many of the same questions.

Additionally 1968 and earlier the push pull mechanism was located closer to the door opening. Top of door inside 1969 and later they moved it further ahead of the door opening to prevent theft

 

[RT K_line]

I think I have a set from a 2 door and a 4 door I will try to post some pics this evening after work. And as stated above the rods for the door lock and the door handle are longer for the 4 door model.

 

[cudak888]

Before I respond to the two replies above, following is what I found in the 1968 manual, so everyone can see where I am at this point:

I'm able to follow the manual up to the part numbers itself. On the previous page, the "ROD" is listed as "ROD, Frt. Door Latch Locking Control Push," which must be a reference to part #36, not #38. That leaves the "LINK, Frt. Door Latch Key Cylinder," which does describe the part that I'm after - except that it only lists two part numbers for any B-body - all 2-door, except one for the station wagon, and not even a left and right.

Stumped at this one - at least from the manual's standpoint. Not that I'll ever find the right part from the part number, but it should tell me the variants.

EDIT: Maybe I'm looking at the wrong diagram, according to these screenshots below. But it's still a dead end - I found an alternate part type code for the Belvedere/Coronet, but the part is the door latch link, not the lock cylinder:

Have you been able to resolve your problem? I did find out that the linkage that connects the latch to the door handle is a different length on a four-door. I have different style door latches as you have pictured. Have had many of the same questions.

- - - Updated - - -

Additionally 1968 and earlier the push pull mechanism was located closer to the door opening. Top of door inside 1969 and later they moved it further ahead of the door opening to prevent theft

What year is your car, and which of the "different" door latches do you have? The kind that won't unlock by pulling the door release lever, or the ones that would? Curious to see if it differs from my '68.

I ordered a pair of rods from a member here, who says he never received payment. I've given him the benefit of the doubt, but i has set me back a good week and a half. At any rate, I'm not doing any more money order transactions with the FABO/FBBO community anymore - it's now PayPal, none of this Luddite business. Been burned one too many times on both forums to have learned my lesson.

That said, I ordered these 2-door rods on eBay (which also haven't shipped after two workdays - so much for quick shipping karma coming back to me :angryfire which look identical to the ones I would have been sent:

If they don't work, well, nothing like another week's worth of waiting and another $20 down the $hitter.

The push-pull relocation in 1969 only applies to 2-doors. The frameless windows on the 2-doors can be Toby Halicki'ed very easily through the rubber seal, while it's a non-issue on the framed 4-doors:

I think I have a set from a 2 door and a 4 door I will try to post some pics this evening after work. And as stated above the rods for the door lock and the door handle are longer for the 4 door model.

Definitely want to see the variations, if you find a moment for those photos.

-Kurt

 

[pro-streeter]

Here are some pictures for reference

 

[RT K_line]

door parts

Here are the pics of what I have, hope it helps.

 

[pro-streeter]

View attachment 310800e
Here are some other photos latches are stamped with IMPC. Also Hancock.

 

[cudak888]

So far, I'm counting at least five unique designs here, irrespective of manufacturer (for the record, my original '68 latch is an IMPC; I believe the replacement is too):

- Three distinct versions of the latch type that locks the door release lever from opening the door unless the pull button is open:

-- The first one has a simple stop built into it and a small insert holding a rotating retainer to keep the door button rod in place (version at left):

-- Another has the "simple" stop and a spoon-type lever for some additional function built into it (version at right), and is does NOT have a hole on the top for a door button:

-- This one has a more complex slotted stop and a large door button rod hole, which may have once had the rotating insert like my '68 latch (question - is this one marked Hancock? Wondering if it's just a variation on the operational design and considered functionally the same as the preceding versions):

...and two distinct versions (excluding L/R variations) without the stop, allowing the door to be popped open even if the button is in the down position:

-- One with the spoon type lever and the clip-style tab for the door lock rod:

-- One without the spoon type lever and provisions for the door lock rod (two photos - first is at left, second in photo below; only difference is one is LH and the other RH):

The '68 manual references a change in January '68 for the B and C body latches What the change is a good question - anyone out there with cars of known production dates with their original latches?

'68 part numbers:

And just to mix it up, someone was busy redesigning everything in '69 by comparison, and there is a distinct part number given for front door latches vs. rear:

'69 part numbers:

While I can't say at all for sure, I suspect the latches without the tabs for the rod may be for the rear doors - but that's just an uneducated guess.

Can anyone determine the function of that spoon shaped lever? Not having one in my hands makes it a bit difficult to comprehend.

One other question, this one for RT K_Line: Any chance you might know what car those longer door rods came off of? Year, doors, model?:

-Kurt

 

[pro-streeter]

View attachment 310806View attachment 310807

These are driver side.

 

[cudak888]

FYI: Can't believe I forgot to mention this, but my car is pre-January '68, built November 7th of '67.

-Kurt

 

[RT K_line]

The parts I posted are from a 4 door 67 Belvedere. The rod are fronts and the latches are front and rear. Hopes this helps.

 

[cudak888]

Been under with the flu (complete with that miserable cough that practically wipes every last ounce of life from your ever lovin' soul), but forced myself to work on the door locks today:

As was probably predictable, the 2-door rods from eBay are too short - just barely. They'll lock, but there's not enough travel in them to shove the latch back down when the key is turned:

Seeing as the '68 doors are more or less a creative reskinning of the '66-67 doors, I'm inclined to believe RT K-Line's rods are dead ringers for what my '68 is supposed to have. One of my parts orders (for a pair of ventshades off a wagon spotted on Craigslist) so happens to have included a request for the door rods, so I have good vibes that the parts from the wagon will do the trick.

Also, I took care of the door lock button rod popping off by lightly sawing a recessed ring/channel into the end of the rod, like the door lock rods. Worked wonders. One step backwards, one step forwards...

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

The rods from the wagon donor car (honestly don't recall the year, but I think it was a '69) arrived today. Identical to the '67 rods that RT K_Line posted, and they work perfectly. I might add that the factory-style retainer clip puts the new reproductions to shame:

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

Did the passenger's side today. Nothing earthshattering to report, but I did have a chance to photograph the little modification I made to the door button rods:

The slot hooks into the slide-on clip on the door latch mechanism. The original door latches use a rotating clip fixed permanently onto the door latch (visible on a few of the examples above), which does not require any retaining slot. My guess is that the latches I have are slightly later production.

-Kurt

P.S.: Yes, that's my miniature Mopar cop car fleet. I've got two more coming shortly.