#22 Daytona w/KB 305ci

[Bladecutter]

I saw some footage just a while ago & now i can't locate it on the net. Anyone able to direct so i can find the footage of the 1971 Daytona 500, with richard brooks driving mario Rossi's Daytona( bobby Allison previous season ride w/ BB)w/ the Kieth Black prepared 305 ci....prepped from a destroked 340. The ONLY winged car to run in 1971, the only race...after that the aero cars were killed by the paranoid France, nasty nascar rule mak'r. Brooks led the race for 5 laps, got ot sideways coming out of a turn and got t-boned by Hamiliton, took almost the whole straight(infield included) in a beautiful recovery, getting passed by a lot of the field....car was pretty severely damaged, must have tweaked the wheelbase, but Brooks clawed his way back thru the field with the damaged car to finish in top ten, taking seventh.....this proves my exact feeling....SMALL BLOCKS are ultimately faster....pushing all that extra weight of a big block just makes for worse understeer, faster tyre & brake, and just harder on the car in general. This was such a significant race, because when Francy pantsy imposed the 5 litre restriction on the aero cars, he thought he had gotten rid of the winged cars altogether, but Rossi flipped him the bird by showing the pos that it WAS possible to compete under that over the top restriction. If Brooks hadn't slipped and taken that bad hit from Hamilton, there is every good chance in the world that that little KB mouse motored car would have put egg on ALL of the factory preps. I've had three bone stock 318 B-Bodies in Northern Cali where there is a plethora of bitchin' roads and i have embarassed many exotics and quasi exotics....porches for one are WAY fukin overrated......tyres and low cg are most of the trik bag, the rest is skill, finesse with a light touch. Keep the BB's, i'll mouse anytime, anywhere. So if someone knows a link where i can find the footage, i would appreciate a holler. For me, that is THE Mopar of Mopars.

 

[Lionized]

There's about a 7 minute recap on YouTube with great footage of the Brooks incident.

1971 Daytona 500: http://youtu.be/2Vyx1pCXKzo

 

[Photon440]

How about a model kit of that Daytona with the 305?
http://www.modelroundup.com/product-p/mpc-1705oc.htm

 

[Budnicks]

not sure I agree with all of the stuff about the lighter smaller engine stuff
splitting hairs maybe
the 1st 200mph qualifying run ever in the hayday of winged cars was with a 426ci Hemi
the heaviest engine ever/most powerful/dominating ever too,
that's probably why they were banned,
along with the winged aero cars, over competitive...

I'm sure opinions will vary vastly on that...



anyway here's another shot of Richard Brooks running next to Pete Hamilton at Daytona 500 1971,
in a 69 Daytona winged warrior

 

[Blackheart]

Petty Engineering 1 & 2 in the race. I am friends with Bill Rossi, Marios's son. Mario strangely disappeared about 30 years ago, his son only has speculation as to what happened to him. They shut down the team by mid year in '71 due to loss of sponsorship.

 

[Dennis H]

Big Block Mopar. No replacement for Displacement. In the basement. Took balls to go that fast in these cars back in the day with the tire technology etc.

 

[Bladecutter]

i had no idea about Rossi, thats awful.

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Aggreed on tyres, however not about size.....Johncocks 1982 indy ride, Wildcat w/ a Ford Cosworth just over a litre & a half 0-100-0 in 10 seconds can't fade that Brother....big surprises often come in small packages. never been on a track but i've been carving canyons a long time now, i want my tires to last as long as possible.....i'll take agility over mass any day. I don't much care for Porsche but what they did with the flat six and turbos in a street vein has to be given a lot of credit....my Bro had a 80's vin 930 w/ a vernier on dash for dialing boost....3.0 litres knocking out 500 horses. 930 is one of the cars my sights are set on when i get my hybrid B-Body done...hybrid as in using a MK VIII as host Fo Mo Par if you will....that little 450 lb "cosworthish" alloy block is also a 6 bolt main! The IRS w it's subframe will also be a fairly painless swap. I love Mopars as well as real Minis & Mangustas #22 is definitely My Hero Mopar.....long live the mice

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Everybody, thankyou for Your replies and the info for the model is a bonus, that will be a soon coming acqquisition

 

[Photon440]

Big Block Mopar. No replacement for Displacement. In the basement. Took balls to go that fast in these cars back in the day with the tire technology etc.

Well, there's ONE replacement for displacement, which is RPMs. Richard Brooks had that little engine going past 10,000 in the race.

http://aerowarriors.com/305_daytona.html

 

[Bladecutter]

I like the quotes...especially fill the library before the garage. If someone were to explain to me how to attach photos, i have some that i could bring into the mix, although i have zilch of any of the three B's ive had, but i've got some of my old "Goose"....actually i do have a photo of my 68 Post Coro, a couple chop tops etc. My project FO MO Par will get under way this year after i'm done w/ 62 Grand Prix we're doing. Peace.....jimi

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Nothing like a fast revving, high winding buzz box. I caught some euro footage of a race that had some Panteras and a Mangusta running....the "Goose" with the 289 revved so much fast than the 351 Panteras. But you shed info that i wasn't aware of 10,000?! holy s! My brother's Mangusta had an over the counter Boss 302 built for it and that was an 8500 rpm motor...i thought that was wound tight for 5.0 litres......oh 3 22 is definitely my Hero car..../thanks Doc

 

[Photon440]

Bladecutter, we'd love to see more pictures! It's quite easy, just select the picture box and it will ask you which folder and file on your computer to upload.

 

[Bladecutter]

440....Thanx for Your input. I've been on here a while blowin smoke about past rides and what i want to do in future...Ya'll might think i'm heavy on BS, but all counts i've given are really unexaggerated. Google 1st car ever imported into US by anyone....1907 40/50 Rolls Royce Silver Ghost chassis # 60-553. My Grandfather, Samuel B. Stevens. He 7 Willi Vanderbilt actually started Ormond Beach competitions(Daytona) France founded NASCAR sanctioning in 40's, same expletive who imposed ridiculous displacement restriction on Aero warriors. Sam was also a financial contributor and track steward @ Indianappolis...one of the bricks is His. Sam also competed in many marques, duesenberg being one. Early days of Ormond, one year the Darraq team had three cars to compete, one being a 180 hp car...for some reason the team owner was disqualified from running....Sam bought the whole Darraq enchilada on the spot and drove one of the 90 hp cars in the competition and that day was victorious for the Darraq team, including Sam. Sam & Henry were drinking buddies & sam gave Henry money to build toys....when ford kicked off the assembly line, He entreatied Sam to be an investor for 25%.....Sam just said "Look around Henry, does it look like i need another business venture?....just build me fun stuff Henry" and handed Him another blank check. Truth is, i'm very happy Sam did not take Ford's offer, because i really despise spoon fed self entitled buttholes and that probably helped me to keep from becoming one.
I'm the same yutz Who's been on here talking about His old "Goose" 8MA-1148. The "Goose" in factory form is not a particularly fast car, and had several handling ill's, but the ride was still glorious with great feedback. The major achillees turns out to be how transaxle was hung & 200.00 of fabbing cures the problem, greatly changing personality of car. I got very handy w/ the "Goose", but at the end of the day it's purely a line car, where it behaves best, breaking the limits was a hell of a rush.....all 3 of my bone stock B's (69 Charger, 69 Coro, 68 Coro) could be driven far more aggressively, get em completely sideways and yet they were very forgiving and i was much faster in them than the "Goose"
Door Slammers forever!

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Thanks Boss...i'm pretty illiterate w/ comp, buti 'll learn how to bring my files up and choose, i'll get some images up here before too long...i've got a lot going right now and dedicating time to homework is difficult, but it'll happen eventually. I had no idea that the little KB motor wound that tight, thanks for bringing me up to speed. Have a Great week

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Great Quotes!

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440....my problem is that most of my pictures are in email formats.....have an idea how i can transfer of emails?

 

[mopar 3 B]

Read an article on the 305 recently if I remember where will post it. It was the hemi only sleaved to 305 cube's.

 

[Bladecutter]

Quotes

"Dreams will get You thru times of no money better than money can get You thru times of no dreams" revised from R.Crumb's "Frewwheelin' Franklin"

"When tyranny comes to Amerika, it will be wrapped in the flag & whistling dixie" controversial

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, i care not who makes its laws" Mayer Rothschild

"In times of deciet, the telling of Truth is considered a revolutionary act" George Orwell' "When we fight monsters, we must take care not to become those monsters ourselves" Frederick Nietzche "Americans should ALWAYS have the right to bear arms...even if it's against their own government" Ben Franklin

"Those who would give up their Freedoms for false protection, deserve neither" Ben Franklin

"When the power of Love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace" Jimi Hendrix

"The garden was created not for us, yet we were created to tend the garden" jimi stevens

how's that for a cross section?


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I read same article and also read one that claimed it was a 440, but a BIG block is Still a big block. No, the article that one of the guys sent here is the accurate one, i read it elsewhere along with a comment from someone who worked in the shop while Black was building the mouse. It was definitely a desrtoked small block 340, which at the end of the day started life as a 273. A lot of misinformation gets put on the net. i understand that cubes can be diminished in a big block, but the physical difference in mass between big & small blocks can't be rearranged.

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If it had actually been a big block decubed, i don't think it would have had a snowball's chance in hell of leading the race for five laps and the clawing its way back to seventh in a damaged car. The weight savings was Brooks's advantage and an obviously kwik revving motor.....revs can count for a lot. jimi buff-it

 

[Bladecutter]

Damn, i won't get much done today.....another quote, of my old man's, hammered into me..."Son, airspeed is no substitute for altitude" How many of You dig aircraft? I'm old school, turbines don't yank too much interest out of me, but the hi tech pistons are works of art....Round motors rule....google a Pratt & Wittney 4360, dubbed "corncob" because it was 4 rows of nine cylinders in radial...4360 is displacement. The Hughes HK-1 (Spruce Goose) is one a/c that had EIGHT of these. few warbirds used them. They actually held together under military power pretty well, usually making a 1000 hours before overhaul, a little short of factory reccomended TBO (time before overhaul)which, i think was 1200, and they were over 4000 HP apiece. the gear reductions and transfers are spell binding

 

[Photon440]

440....my problem is that most of my pictures are in email formats.....have an idea how i can transfer of emails?

Generally, once you look at a picture in email you can right click on it and select 'save as' and put it into your favorite folder. Depending on how the email was formatted, you might have a collection of files at the bottom of the page for the images and they also can be saved with a right click of the mouse.

=Photon440=-

 

[65 Plymouth Satellite 426]

Mario Rossi 305 Mopar Engine Pics
View attachment 239482

View attachment 239483

View attachment 239485

Is There Mod Who Could Take Out All But Three Different of The Images Of Mario Rossi's 305 Dodge Engine? I Screwed This Up!

 

[Bladecutter]

Blackheart, since You know Bill Rossi, IMO that qualifies You to be the one to answer the nature of that motor...i knew of controversy and since it's been brought to bear here, what say You...w/o question Kieth Black prepped the engine, was it a small block decubed or a big block decubed...i've read all three versions, resleeved 426, resleeved 440 and destroked 340. I for one believe the 340...my practical question is this, what could possibly be gained by decubing the big block killing its cieling? Less displacement, less power, same weight...seems like easy math to me. Plus, by destroking something, even though You're decreasing the displacement, you are increasing the rev potential, are you no? As 440 claims, the little sucker was bent over 10K @ times, no matter what You do to a big block, do you think it'll spool to 10K?

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65 Plymouth has left a clear clue in the photos...look @ distributor....@ BACK of engine! That's a wrap.....Thankx Plymouth

 

[A383Wing]

it's not a big block sleeved to 305....look where distributor is....and that little motor was turning 10k rpm's.....you ain't gonna do that with any stock motor.....

pick up the Supercars Daytona-Superbird book, it explains it all in there

 

[fratzog lover]

I like your quotes. Theres more wide awake people than we know.

 

[Bladecutter]

And again, Thank You Very much Photon

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Thank You Wing for the vindication, i didn't think i was spreading rumor. My Bro ran diggers back in 60's & 70's....UGF flatty Hondo w/ a Dick Landy 426 punched to 522 called Black Rush'n (His Boat) & He piloted Gene Deaver's Blood Sweat n' Nitro which was a Deaver hydro powered by a Kieth Black/Donovan motor....i know a little something about engines & builders, i was sure of Rossi's car having thwe mouse in it, but like the other guy, i read the stories also that a big block was decubed....that whole line just doesn't stand on it's own if You start to think about it...it would just be a slow motor, might rev a bit kwiker w/ a destroke thrown in on top of heavy sleeves, but it would still be slow.

Bewen very enjoyable today throwing back & forth with Ya'll. Everybody have a bitchin' week.


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Thank You Wing for the vindication, i didn't think i was spreading rumor. My Bro ran diggers back in 60's & 70's....UGF flatty Hondo w/ a Dick Landy 426 punched to 522 called Black Rush'n (His Boat) & He piloted Gene Deaver's Blood Sweat n' Nitro which was a Deaver hydro powered by a Kieth Black/Donovan motor....i know a little something about engines & builders, i was sure of Rossi's car having thwe mouse in it, but like the other guy, i read the stories also that a big block was decubed....that whole line just doesn't stand on it's own if You start to think about it...it would just be a slow motor, might rev a bit kwiker w/ a destroke thrown in on top of heavy sleeves, but it would still be slow.

Bewen very enjoyable today throwing back & forth with Ya'll. Everybody have a bitchin' week.


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And Your car of choice is??

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OK, question, i've been trying to respond to You guys by clicking reply at the bottom of your texts, but all my responses are going hodge podge into a list of resonse that doesn't indicate which way they were directed, so to be clear, Thanx to ALL of You in Mopar land.....when are we going to get to see a shootout between winged doorslammers against the crap NASCAR runs now? Can't understand a purpose built race car that has bad handling characteristics designed into it.....sure make them steer heavy too....i think a winged car would embarrass the whole field.