440 build up

[Rebel426]

It's been a long time since I've done any internal work on an engine. I have been a parts hoarder for several years though. I'm building up a 440 to go in my 73 Road Runner. This car is mainly to be a fun street driver. The closest drag strips are over an hour away. With that goal in mind, here's what I've got in mind for a combination:
late 70's 440 block bored 0.030" over if needed.
Wiseco Pro Tru flat top forged pistons
LY rods with ARP bolts
stock forged steel crank
440 Source heads with mild porting and deck surfaced
Holley Street Dominator (on hand) or MP M1 if I can find one.
850 Thermoquad (yes, I know a Holley DP will make more power but I'm wanting to do a lot of street driving with this)
Lunatti Voodoo or Hughes cam and lifter set
Crane ductile iron rocker setup
Headman B body headers

BB 727 and 3.55 or 3.91 gears in an 8 3/4 will complete the driveline. I'm leaning towards the 3.55's since I will be driving this as much as I can.
A lot of these parts I already have on hand (heads, block, crank, intake, rockers, TQ, headers). I'll be matching the springs to the cam. I'm open to suggestions as to what grind might work best. Any suggestions on things I may have overlooked and of course educated guesses on what kind of power it should put out are welcome as well.
Thanks!

 

[493 Mike]

Call the cam manufacturers-they are the pros. Why do so many fear calling manufacturers, these questions are posted in this and other forums all the time. The torque converters also fall in this category.
Mike

 

[gkent]

Here's my suggestion ... for the exact same money as "440" stuff you can buy a stroker kit (440Source sell a good product) and really have some fun. The 505" is a nice compromise - good power potential without going crazy on bore and stroke. Sell your crank.

 

[66383]

I'd go with TTI or Doug's Headers....just sayin.

 

[rumblefish360]

@Rebel426 The M1 single plane intake is a bit of a high rpm unit. IMO, you will be better off with the Holley Street Dominator. While it is still a single plane intake, it has a much smaller plenum for the engine to draw on making it suitable for the street. Not so much with the M1 single plane.

One of the compromises on the car is the want for it being street driven with a big open plenum intake and 3.55 gears. The ratio makes it hard to get out of the hole. It can get worse with a suitable cam for the M1 & what it is really designed to do.

What size tire will be on the rear of the car? This makes a difference!

Cam wise, considering the car is relatively heavy & low geared, with driving in mind. I myself would really on go one or maybe two steps larger than stock. The OE cam performed really well for what it was, when it was...

If there was any doubt to where that might land you, I myself would give Hughes a call and ask for there upgraded cam over the stock 440 hp cam.

PS, What ever cam you go with, I myself and I’m sure the forum would like to know.

Call the cam manufacturers-they are the pros. Why do so many fear calling manufacturers, these questions are posted in this and other forums all the time. The torque converters also fall in this category.
Mike

Mike, I agree to a point because when you start making phone calls to cam grinders, it really isn’t much different than getting people on the net answering the question. Each grinder I ever called had a different opinion on what there ideal cam was. Also, in the case of a big grinder, Lunati, Comp, Crane, etc.... a different tech the next day will yield a different opinion and grind.

My advice to anyone is read up on cams and get a good general understanding of them. Select your own cam and if there is any doubt, error on the small side.

Remember, to look at the advertised and numbers @ .050 duration will largely dictate the operating rpm band of the engine. Lift has a direct impact on HP. So get as much as you can as long as the heads can handle the lift or quite flowing air well. A 110 C-line is a typical Muscle car set up. Going down to a 108 will almost always show an improvement on low end torque and high rpm HP for your street machine.

When it comes to a converter, your best move is to call a known major aftermarket house and have it customized for you. Dynamic & Ultimate or two places with a very good reputation. I’m sure others will chime in with other places that also do a fantastic job. I myself, have Pro Torque down the block form me.

 

[wyrmrider]

some excellent advice on the rotating kit, intake, I like the TQ- you will not miss a little hp on the very top end
you have Iron rockers so go with a solid cam and edm lifters (forget Hughes)
dbl check the compression ratio and post back
build for tight quench
what rpm band are you looking for?

 

[66Satellite47]

To the OP, you didn't say which parts you already have. The stroker kit suggestion is good if you don't have the bottom end parts already. A stock steel crank & LY rods w/ARP bolts will live a long time at 6500 RPM & below. Aftermarket heads are the way to go, but they still need a qualified builder to make the valve guides & valve job good. Call numerous cam folks, see how many different answers you get. The big names tend not to have very many guys that actually know Mopars. For a mild build, the off the shelf versions will get you close. More lift with a moderate duration will drive well. Spend the money on a TOP quality torque converter. It makes all the difference.

 

[gkent]

A point about the heads. You're better off buying a "ready to run" set from someone like Dave Porter. They are not "ready to run" from the source (440Source, Indy, et) so while its a little more money, its less expensive overall to buy from a guy who does head work and will prep them properly for bolt-on. Chances are you're still going to have to get in there and grind pushrod clearance so be prepared for that !!

 

[gkent]

Unless you're doing a restoration or are on a tight budget, it makes no sense in this day and age to build a stock displacement motor when you can have a stroker for the same money.

 

[IQ52]

Hah! Run the parts you have, it'll be a joy to drive!

 

[wyrmrider]

The question above was what he had already
crank all ready to go
rods rebuilt with new bolts
etc

 

[Rebel426]

To the OP, you didn't say which parts you already have. The stroker kit suggestion is good if you don't have the bottom end parts already. A stock steel crank & LY rods w/ARP bolts will live a long time at 6500 RPM & below. Aftermarket heads are the way to go, but they still need a qualified builder to make the valve guides & valve job good. Call numerous cam folks, see how many different answers you get. The big names tend not to have very many guys that actually know Mopars. For a mild build, the off the shelf versions will get you close. More lift with a moderate duration will drive well. Spend the money on a TOP quality torque converter. It makes all the difference.

Here's what I already have:
polished crank
good LY rods and bolts
440 Source heads bought used, in good shape, currently being checked, gasket matched, and resurfaced at my local shop (I'm trading him a 318 & 904 in exchange)
Street Dominator intake
Crane rockers
2800 stall converter
Headman headers

I didn't go into too any of this but I have 3 project cars. The 73 requires the least metal work to get back on the road. I have a 68 4 speed Road Runner and a 68 Charger, originally 318 too. I collect parts when I run up on a good deal on them. I'm wanting to have something to drive and enjoy while I work on the other two. The Charger will get a 493. I have the 4.15" crank already. The guy I bought it from had already cut the rod journals down to 2.20" though so I'll have to buy rods to use it. I'm also going to get better heads, probably Trick Flow 240s or Bruce Toth's for that engine. The 68 Road Runner will look stock because it's the only one of the three that was a real muscle car when built. I have ported 915's with big valves and a date coded 383 block to put back in there. I may use one of my spare 440 cranks and stroke it to a 426 though.

 

[Rebel426]

Call the cam manufacturers-they are the pros. Why do so many fear calling manufacturers, these questions are posted in this and other forums all the time. The torque converters also fall in this category.
Mike

I've talked to Hughes on some stuff before although that was years ago. I like to hear what other people have had good luck running too though.

 

[IQ52]

The question above was what he had already
crank all ready to go
rods rebuilt with new bolts
etc

Yes you're correct. I'm pretty sure that was all listed in the very first post. It was when I read it.

 

[BSB67]

The cam really effects the low speed characteristic of the car, and it's not clear what you're looking for in that regard. If you're looking at hydraulic, and if its a cruiser that you want to drive regularly and prefer a gentler idle and smooth low rpm operation, I would suggest something in the 222° to 224° intake duration @ 0.050". If your interest in a stock idle, go a little smaller, if you want a bit more power, go a little bigger. I would recommend a dual plane intake too. But if the HD is all you got, go with it. I would not go out to by an M1 single plane for this.

 

[wyrmrider]

are those crane iron rockers or roller tips
if roller tips go to the B3 http://www.b3racingengines.com/techcorner.asp
read all 4 tech artilces
hand calculate your compression
I've done that 440 crank in 383 with 440 rods- works well
I used 915 heads one time & oem matching 383 heads another with forged quench dome pistons for a matching number superbird

 

[Rebel426]

are those crane iron rockers or roller tips
if roller tips go to the B3 http://www.b3racingengines.com/techcorner.asp
read all 4 tech artilces
hand calculate your compression
I've done that 440 crank in 383 with 440 rods- works well
I used 915 heads one time & oem matching 383 heads another with forged quench dome pistons for a matching number superbird

They’re the ductile irons. I have a set of Harland Sharp rollers I’m saving for the 493. Good tech in any case. Thanks!

 

[Rebel426]

The cam really effects the low speed characteristic of the car, and it's not clear what you're looking for in that regard. If you're looking at hydraulic, and if its a cruiser that you want to drive regularly and prefer a gentler idle and smooth low rpm operation, I would suggest something in the 222° to 224° intake duration @ 0.050". If your interest in a stock idle, go a little smaller, if you want a bit more power, go a little bigger. I would recommend a dual plane intake too. But if the HD is all you got, go with it. I would not go out to by an M1 single plane for this.

I'm fine with a rougher idle. I want it to perform. It's not going to be a daily driver but I plan on taking it out to local cruise ins, car shows, etc. It might see a drag strip once or twice a year, just to see what she'll do. My biggest concern is keeping enough vacuum for the power brakes to still work.

 

[wyrmrider]

ok adjustable ductile iron
I'd use solid lifter cam with edm lifters more bang for your bucks
specificy masters for .904 lifters but street not strip only profiles
you can ask that the lift be limited depending on head flows but do not chase that last little bit of lift as wear goes up and max lift is more of an advertising "my *** is bigger than your ***"
you are looking for the most area under the curve at your chosen duration which you can approximate by the ,200 duration
you can tell by the springs required
I'd also use hollow pushrods to help the adjusters live longer

 

[Curiousyellow71]

If you are considering a solid and you are used to hydraulic specs remember the solid .050 rating is with no lash. Subtract 8-10 degrees at .050 on modern tight lash cams to compare with a hydraulic. A lot of people upgrade to a solid a size larger then their old hydraulic cam and end up with similiar performance. Since you mentioned vacuum brakes...the narrower the Lsa the less vacuum and rougher idle the cam will have. The voodoo series run a 110 lsa. The narrower lsa gives it a rougher idle and runs less vacuum. Most of Hughes cams run narrow Lsa like 108 on their solids. I would probably run a cam with a Lsa on 112 or 114 for vacuum brakes and do like mentioned get a profile with the most area under the curve designed for .904 mopar lifters. I like bullet cams and ultradyne . Talk to Tim Goolsby. Their custom grinds are reasonably priced. There are several tech guys to talk to from other companies as well. I did a comp cams custom grind years ago and it took more time to give the credit card info then tech help on the cam.