440 fresh rebuild starter grinding on flywheel?

[brantlylh]

just wrappin up my 440 rebuild on my 73 RR. 727 trans in car now, has hedman headers so swapped to mini starter. out of a 96 dakota V8. starter is brand new. i know my relay is good. the starter is grinding on the flywheel when engaging. im thinkin it might not have enough power to engage completly? any thoughts from some of you mopar gurus out there? i started the car with jumper cables running to the car from my truck. the lights in the car wont turn on and starter wont kick on unless i do this. (dead battery) does this sound right? im taking the battery in to be replaced or tested tomorrow. or shoudl i look at a different starter altogether? motor is 10-1 comp ross pistons molnar rods 440 source heads. -brantly.

 

[brantlylh]

ok the latest on this issue is the new battery didnt help. also heard somewhere if you ream the holes where starter mounts up so you can move in and out in relation to flywheel will help, well that didnt help. had a buddy bump the starter and it looks like to me the starter wheel is bouncing (for lack of a better term) in between teeth when it engages..... meaning it grabs, and instead of pushing flywheel aound the teeth just bounce up and down in the teeth of the flywheel if that makes any sense. and occasionally it gets jamed in the flywheel and wont retract. im thinkin its either its to close to flywheel or the teeth count is off on the starter. any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[440roadrunner]

If you have a proper flywheel/ bell combination, ANY gear drive or mini starter should crank the engine. You should not have to elongate holes, shim, etc. Is the recess for the nose clean? Does the starter sit down tight on the bell? Otherwise, I'd suspect a bad starter, either bad drive gear or something wrong in the linkage/ solenoid.

 

[brantlylh]

well. the nose in the bell where the starter sits is good. but ill pull starter again just to be sure. ive heard that sometimes the mini starters need to sit a little bit away from the flywheel to let the pinion engage like it shoudl? although i didnt think that it would be needed i went ahead and tried it anyway. the starter does sit tight against the bell. i cant figure out whats causing this.

 

[brantlylh]

ok how about a bad ground? could that cause this? noticed today that the ground from starter to relay is loose. the actual terminal not the wire. so im gonna get a new relay and see what happens.

 

[440roadrunner]

You don't even need the relay to check the starter. Make sure and I mean SURE you have a good ground from battery to block. (You don't run a trunk battery, do ya?)

Make sure you have a good hot cable.

Then short across the starter terminals right at the starter. If you can, clip your meter to the big starter stud and the block. If you have 10V or more, and it won't crank, it's not electrical, unless it's something internal in the solenoid/ contacts

 

[Ralph Cali]

I had a similar problem on my 73RR - 440 build.

The problem for me is that the starter was not properly aligned with the flywheel. - had the wrong combination for the setup. Once i used the right flywheel my problem went away . I had a 5spd tremec with custom bellhousing so I did not work things out properly.
You have an auto do you have the correct torque converter - count the teeth and check the mopar spes. I believe a bb flywheel has 143 teeth but not sure - check it out. You may have more than one problem.
Ralph

 

[coloradodave]

In his first post he said that the car will start with a jump from another car. This sounds like a problem with the cables, not the starter or relay. Remove BOTH ends of the ground cable and brighten all connections. Same with the POS cable. Only other glitch may be if it's a trunk mounted battery with cable thats too small gauge. Betting on the ground.....

 

[khryslerkid]

Just curious, school me on this. A Dodge Dakota V8 starter, that would be a small block, 318, will work on a BB 440?

 

[brantlylh]

Just curious, school me on this. A Dodge Dakota V8 starter, that would be a small block, 318, will work on a BB 440?

the dakota is the 318. is that not the starter taht will work? i read somewhere that it would on one of the forums. which one will if not this one?

 

[brantlylh]

You don't even need the relay to check the starter. Make sure and I mean SURE you have a good ground from battery to block. (You don't run a trunk battery, do ya?)

Make sure you have a good hot cable.

Then short across the starter terminals right at the starter. If you can, clip your meter to the big starter stud and the block. If you have 10V or more, and it won't crank, it's not electrical, unless it's something internal in the solenoid/ contacts

nope not running a trunk battery. ill will give this a try tonight and update later. thanks everyone for your hlep so far. cruising the coast is in 3 weeks. tryin to get this thing together before then. still have to swap to manual steering b/c of the headers.

 

[brantlylh]

I had a similar problem on my 73RR - 440 build.

The problem for me is that the starter was not properly aligned with the flywheel. - had the wrong combination for the setup. Once i used the right flywheel my problem went away . I had a 5spd tremec with custom bellhousing so I did not work things out properly.
You have an auto do you have the correct torque converter - count the teeth and check the mopar spes. I believe a bb flywheel has 143 teeth but not sure - check it out. You may have more than one problem.
Ralph

hmm. well if this is my problem. i would say its the starter thats not right for the setup. flywheel came out of the car and started fine before the rebuild. (with the large factory starter) wouldnt suprise me if your right though.

 

[coloradodave]

BACK TO POST #1: "I started the car with jumper cables hooked to my truck." We are over-thinking this. See post #8......................

 

[khryslerkid]

the dakota is the 318. is that not the starter taht will work? i read somewhere that it would on one of the forums. which one will if not this one?

I was just asking, I didn't say it wouldn't work.

 

[brantlylh]

BACK TO POST #1: "I started the car with jumper cables hooked to my truck." We are over-thinking this. See post #8......................

my apoligies dave, i just re read my original post. the car wouldnt start with the cables from the truck hooked up to old battery it would only cause the grinding.... sorry for the confusion.

 

[67 coronet]

i think the dakota starter is metric and your fly is std.that could be causing your kick back problem.:eusa_think:

 

[brantlylh]

Well I think I've figured out what's going on with the starter. I got it turn over like it should but I have to jump the power stud to ground stud on the relay then it turns over like it should. I'm thinking it's a ground somewhere under the dash. Starter just clicks when using the key. But I'm not getting any spark or fuel being pulled by fuel pump so I have a few bugs to work out yet.

 

[440roadrunner]

i think the dakota starter is metric and your fly is std.that could be causing your kick back problem.:eusa_think:

NOPE Lots of us are using Dakota mini-starters in place of older wound field, gear reduction starters

Well I think I've figured out what's going on with the starter. I got it turn over like it should but I have to jump the power stud to ground stud on the relay then it turns over like it should. I'm thinking it's a ground somewhere under the dash. Starter just clicks when using the key. But I'm not getting any spark or fuel being pulled by fuel pump so I have a few bugs to work out yet.

Can you elaborate? Exactly what did you ground? Something on the starter relay?

 

[brantlylh]

NOPE Lots of us are using Dakota mini-starters in place of older wound field, gear reduction starters




Can you elaborate? Exactly what did you ground? Something on the starter relay?

Yes. Well I grounded the neutral safety switch to ground post on relay but what I was referring to was having to use a flathead screwdriver and touch the BATT post and SOL post on relay at same time to get it to turn over.

 

[brantlylh]

Also roadrunner. I'm pretty sure the majority of my problems here are electrical. And I'm not getting any spark at all and have 4-5 volts at coil with key in on position. New everything in engine bay. Distributor came out of the car originally my thought is that could be contacts in distributor are bad? Harnesses resistor orange ecu coil are brand new any thoughts?