440 refresh/assembly - Questions, questions, questions

[Malicious]

I'm about to do a really basic refresh/assemble on the 440 I brought and I've got a few probably stupid questions that I'm hoping I can get some help with.

First up: the engine is a cast crank but didn't come with a torque converter. I have a torque converter that came with the car that I was going to run. I have just rear that the cast crank engines are balanced on the convert or as well? How do I go about matching up balanced unit?

Can I balance it? Do I need a special toothed plate(flex?)? How do I identify if I have one already?

Can I balance the torque converter I have to the crank? Or is that something the machinist would do?


Part two: I have a set if iron rockers and shafts separate that I wouldn't mind putting on instead if the pressed rockers. What am I going to need to swap them over?


Thanks for any help in advance!

 

[Garys1969RR]

The torque converter on cast crank engines (440) has a balance weight welded to it. There are also flex plates available that have the balance weight already welded on. That way you can use any zero balance torque converter.

- - - Updated - - -

For adjustable rocker arms you will need different push rods, the ball and cup type. The stock shafts and bolts will work.

 

[mopar 3 B]

If this is a basic stock engine save the iron rockers for something that requires them. Other wise a lot of expense for little gain if any.

 

[747mopar]

If this is a basic stock engine save the iron rockers for something that requires them. Other wise a lot of expense for little gain if any.

X2

 

[Malicious]

Thanks guys, I just re-read my post, typing on my phone made part of the post completely illegible, thanks for deciphering.

I'll check my converter but I imagine it'll be a zero balance.

With the iron rockers, why would it be not worth bothering? Do you mean if I swap the cam later I'll probably need pushrods to suit again so do it at the time I put a performance cam in?

Also took some measurements of the engine as I really got no info about it:
Bore - 4.322"
Stroke - 3.914"
Head - 452's so 81.5cc yeah?
Piston to deck heigh - .149" in the hole. Flat top, no recesses.
Gasket thickness - .047"

I used an online calculator reckons that I have 8.3:1. So is this going to be a bit of a slug? No idea what the cam is. Might take a dial indicator to a lifter to try and work out the lift. Any other ideas on how to check the cam?

Also, any thoughts on how to get a little extra performance out of it with out to much work? Ie cam?

Other details: rpm performance intake, I have a 650 vac sec holly, 4.56 LSD rear, 68 coronet.

Any thoughts would be great.
Cheers

 

[Meep-Meep]

For the low CR you can get a cam from Crane or Edelbrock, or ?? that will keep the cylinder pressure up and that will make for a nice driver. Conventional big cams with low compression are a disaster so stay away form that.

4.56 gears are a bit steep for basically a stock motor so I'd plan on 3.23 or 3.55.

If you want a cheap compression boost cut about .050" off the heads (and correct the intake side as well) and run a steel shim gasket. Pushrods will need to be custom length.

 

[Malicious]

Thanks meep, what kinds if specs should u be looking at? I was thinking if a thumpr or whiplash style cam, bit of noise with a bit of a power gain. For a small cam to suit my cr will the stock springs be ok?

Also test fit my ignition today, I'm thinking this is for B big block not an RB. Am I right?



And lucky last for today, brought some plugs, the NGK book said BP5S. No probs, whack them in and they seam really short. I'm using them to plug the whole but I'm assuming I need longer. Can some one tell what the correct plugs I need are?

Thanks guys!

 

[kiwigtx]

That distributor definitely looks to be a B Big Block unit rather than an RB.
And I have run NGK BP5S in the past with reasonable success. Changed recently to Champions due to fueling issues more than anything.

 

[Malicious]

Thanks Kiwi, I good mechanic mate of mine has steered me away from champion recently. Claims the quality has gone to crap. With the NGK's, is that how far the sparkies are meant to extend into the chamber? Looks about 10mm (5/8) to short? Seams like you'd end up with hotspots on the thread and poor burn? Or am I over thinking it?

 

[Meep-Meep]

A cam that has a LSA of about 114 deg and perhaps 200-210 deg duration at .050. Look at the basic RPM range of the cam and expect to land on something from idle to 5000 RPM. Stock HP spring with damper (about 100 lbs on seat) should be fine.

Those are big block distributors but as mentioned seem to have the low block shaft length.

 

[GTX MATT]

Those heads are no where near 81.5 cc if they haven't been cut, more like 88-90 cc. By my calculations you're going to have 7.54:1, which is worse than stock. Why are you running that thick head gasket? I would have the heads milled and run a steel shim.

If have them milled a ton you can get them down to around 74-75 CC. The intake face will need to be milled as well. At 74 CC with a steel shim you will have about 8.8:1 compression. It will probably run you 2 bills for the milling.

The best thing to do with these engines is find a set of earlier standard bore stock pistons and swing them in. I just sold a set for 100 bucks with rods.

I'd run the small summit racing cam, it will do well for you.

 

[super-bee_ski]

follow HT 413s re-build

 

[GTX MATT]

Those heads are no where near 81.5 cc if they haven't been cut, more like 88-90 cc. By my calculations you're going to have 7.54:1, which is worse than stock. Why are you running that thick head gasket? I would have the heads milled and run a steel shim.

If have them milled a ton you can get them down to around 74-75 CC. The intake face will need to be milled as well. At 74 CC with a steel shim you will have about 8.8:1 compression. It will probably run you 2 bills for the milling.

The best thing to do with these engines is find a set of earlier standard bore stock pistons and swing them in. I just sold a set for 100 bucks with rods.

I'd run the small summit racing cam, it will do well for you. I would not run stock springs with any cam. They wear out too. Lots of performance issues can come with weak springs that you won't even notice, you'll just assume the engine is a pig.

 

[Malicious]

Cool so I feel like this engine is a hole, awesome. So now I have a spare pair of heads that are 516's. I'm finding conflicting information about the chamber volume tho. Can anyone give me the 'official' cc in these?

I've found some flow numbers that look like they flow good enough for my application. If they get the cr up to a decent level I'll get them crack tested and I might port them a little, more of a smooth and debur, then put them on. I've also got another head gasket, so I'll check what the thickness if those is and work from there.

The way I see it I have four options, 1 ignor it and install. 2 if the 516's are good, install them with appropriate cam. 3 alloy heads (no car on road at all for this summer which I'd rather avoid). 4 purchase another built engine, there is one for sale ATM that is 68 date coded (perfect) with mild mods (509 purple cam etc) for $3000. Need to inspect it though. But really it's dipping into cash I should t touch and will Likely piss off the wife, although i can get some of that back from the sale of this engine.

 

[HT413]

Are you certain you measured the stroke correctly? For 3.914" stroke, you'd need Chevy rods and I'd guess aftermarket pistons.

As far as head cc's, it's really easy to cc them yourself. You can buy a kit from comp I think or you can just drill a hole in a small piece of plexiglas and lay it over the combustion chamber. Apply a thin layer of oil to seal it. Then all you need is something to measure the water pretty precisely, maybe pickup a plastic syringe or graduated cylinder from eBay or amazon for a few $$. If you have a postage scale, you can get really fancy and figure that 1 cc of water is 1g and just go by weight. Then just fill the combustion chamber with water and see how much fits. You'll need to keep the valves in obviously.

 

[Malicious]

Yeah I figured there might be a way to check it myself. I did read that the 516's where prone to more variation. I might pop a head and measure them both tomorrow night if I get time. Thanks for the run down.

I'm pretty sure that stroke is right, but I will remeasure. Actually now that I think of it, I measure from the deck to the piston top at its lowest point. that wouldn't have taken into account the amount it was in the hole. Basic math would put it at around 3.77" then? But I will remeasure tomorrow night as well.

 

[GTX MATT]

IMO mill the crap out of either of those heads, get the compression close to 9:1 and let it go. Don't be afraid to cut them up, they're a dime a dozen.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Yeah I figured there might be a way to check it myself. I did read that the 516's where prone to more variation. I might pop a head and measure them both tomorrow night if I get time. Thanks for the run down.

I'm pretty sure that stroke is right, but I will remeasure. Actually now that I think of it, I measure from the deck to the piston top at its lowest point. that wouldn't have taken into account the amount it was in the hole. Basic math would put it at around 3.77" then? But I will remeasure tomorrow night as well.

Your stroke in a stock 440 will be 3.75". So thats prob what you have. Yes, remember to deduct the below deck measurement at TDC, from the distance measured at bottom dead center, to get to the actual stroke distance.

 

[HT413]

Actually now that I think of it, I measure from the deck to the piston top at its lowest point. that wouldn't have taken into account the amount it was in the hole. Basic math would put it at around 3.77" then? But I will remeasure tomorrow night as well.

Yeah that makes sense.

 

[Malicious]

How much would I need to mill of the heads to bring the CR up? I have it at around 8.6 CR with the exsisting head gasket. Say I wanted to take it to 9:1, about how much would need to be taken off?

And from that, how much would need to come off the intake? Might do the ring around and get a price.

Also looking at getting the Whiplash cam from Hughes; Sounds great, but does it look like a solid option for me?
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=RS0gQmlnIEJsb2NrICAoUmFpc2VkIERlY2sp&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&level2=V2hpcGxhc2ggTXVzY2xlIENhciBjYW1z&partid=30172

Or

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=RS0gQmlnIEJsb2NrICAoUmFpc2VkIERlY2sp&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&level2=V2hpcGxhc2ggTXVzY2xlIENhciBjYW1z&partid=25116