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440 short block assembled, shes a tight one.

mentor70

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So, yeah, its been like 16 yrs since i put a 440 together, done dozens of Jap import stuff...but ive been on a domestic famine for ages.

anyway, this engine is for my 65 coronet post!

im using a 440 source rotating assembly, standard stroke.

so i file fit the rings, and set everything up, the oil ring pack is a standard set that total seal specs out at 24-25 lbs.

man this thing SUPER stiff to rotate, man i must me a total wuss these days.

i almost went with a low tension ring oil ring set, but i held off because i didnt want to run a vacuum pump for the crank case.

im i just overly **** or what.
 

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When you set the crankshaft it should easily spin by hand, then did you measure the torque to turn the engine as you installed each piston? How many ft-lbs to turn the complete assembly? Are the cam and timing chain installed? Did the cam spin freely? For reference, I generally see approximately 25 ft-lbs with a standard ring set and all pistons installed.
 
with standard tension oil rings and 5/64" compression rings i usually see 35ftlb breakover for the assembled short block. i have had less breakover torque but it's usually due to the type of ring pack. when the crank is properly set up in the block you should be able to grab the snout and easily rotate it.
 
the complete rotating assembly is new, the block was line honed, and the cam journals were trued, and im running over sized cam bearings to correct a core shift issue.

the crank turned over just fine without pistons.

when i added the first piston it felt stupid tight, so i pulled it back out, and reinstalled the stalled the piston minus the oil control rings and it was very normal at that time.

not having any type of torque measuring device i could not say what amount of drag i have, or what amount of torque is being applied to roll it over.

i made a small mod to the oil tension springs before i finished the assembly that lightened them up a bit, but working daily with low tension smaller import engines this really woke me up as i finished putting it together.

i have .004 between all the rods, which is tight side of normal.

the oil clearance on the crank is on the tight side as well at .002-00018, but as i said earlier no binding or drama after that was installed and torqued at 110 lbs.

my buddy came by a few days back and said it felt fairly normal to him, and he dose Mopars fairly regularly.

ill snoop around today to see if i can find a tool to ck the break away torque and such.

thanks for all reply's!
 
the complete rotating assembly is new, the block was line honed, and the cam journals were trued, and im running over sized cam bearings to correct a core shift issue.

the crank turned over just fine without pistons.

when i added the first piston it felt stupid tight, so i pulled it back out, and reinstalled the stalled the piston minus the oil control rings and it was very normal at that time.

not having any type of torque measuring device i could not say what amount of drag i have, or what amount of torque is being applied to roll it over.

i made a small mod to the oil tension springs before i finished the assembly that lightened them up a bit, but working daily with low tension smaller import engines this really woke me up as i finished putting it together.

i have .004 between all the rods, which is tight side of normal.

the oil clearance on the crank is on the tight side as well at .002-00018, but as i said earlier no binding or drama after that was installed and torqued at 110 lbs.

my buddy came by a few days back and said it felt fairly normal to him, and he dose Mopars fairly regularly.

ill snoop around today to see if i can find a tool to ck the break away torque and such.

thanks for all reply's!

Stupid question but did you make sure the rods are installed on the pistons correctly? i had one that the machine shop installed a rod backwards. It was hard as hell to turn over until I figure out what the issue was.
 
Uhm, if you torqued the mains to 110 lbs, it would seem you have a torque measuring device.
 
.004 rod clearance is not going to work, what jusglazin said might be the problem
 
"tight" and 'hard to turn" are relative terms, so what I think is tough to turn could be easy for someone else, you need to measure. With no pushrods in the motor you should be able to put a tq wrench set at 30 ft lbs on the crank and not feel the click. File fit rings are tough and I would check each cylinder as it goes together, it sucks to get it in a score a wall or start breaking rings...

I leave my motor building up to the pros now, I will throw together a sbc on occasion because I have done so many and crates are so cheap building them yourself is the only way to make it make sense, plus they go together super easy,
I also use the same recipe every time, you want to get sick look at this...
$525 for a balanced scat 383 rotating assembly with rings and b-rings,
$520 for roller rockers, roller cam, and lifters (488/495)
$625 for aluminum heads complete everything from springs to guides.
$160 for the double roller set, gasket set, oil pump, push rods, fuel pump, pump rod, etc, all good stuff...
Distributor I run rebuilt late model HEI's, I have tons of aluminum intakes, and carbs...
I have at least 9 good 350 single rear main/roller motors in my shed (I collect them), I have 1 of them motors sitting in my garage on the stand all done, waiting and I have built 7 of them not including that one...
The machine work costs me $350 for the crank clear, clean, mag, bore, hone, and line (I do a lot of them)...
SO TOTAL I am always under $2500 for a 440hp small block!! I had one in a 91 corvette (actually sold the car to my neighbors son last year) and I put 15K miles on that car, I bought the car hit in the front, they ripped the motor out at a junk yard, I had a nose in my yard, put it all together, but the surprise was it had a 6 speed tremec in it, I built my cookie cutter stroker motor, tossed it in with a carb (tpi was long gone), and WHAT a FUN car to drive, I drove it with a white nose (black car) for a solid year, lol, then right before I sold it I painted it all black.. He still has it and I see him blowing it around town all the time, not sure of the miles but has to be another 15K by now, so its a proven recipe for sure...

ANYWAY, I got off track, do your self a favor and check the energy it takes to turn that motor, you may not like the results, but fixing it now is a lot better than later...

PS I paint the **** out of my motors before I assemble them, its weird seeing one put together and not painted, I know machine shops that build engines do them after BUT I HATE painted bolts, gaskets, etc.. To me it just looks better when you paint them before, and with the older motors, I always prime/seal the galley...
 
Yes, the rods had a heavy chamfer on one side, i put the chamfered sides to the fillets on the cranks, i believe this is what i did on my 496 stroker i did like 15 yrs ago.

i can use my 3/8 snap on torque wrench which has a vibration/beep action when the the torque is reached.

im thinking its prolly more than 30 ft lbs, but we shall see i guess.

now to figure out what to do with the rod clearances....oh joy
 
call 440source, that kit from them should have correct side clearance.
 
i just came in from taking a closer look at things, after peppering the rods with a urethane mallet, i was able to see .014-.016 on 3 of the rod pairings, on the one that has me concerned the most, it went to .009.

im off tomorrow, i think im gonna pull out the suspious rod, and hit the big end with an oil stone and see what happens.
 
Besides the rods being installed right, on the pistons, and on the crank, did you by any chance check the rod big end for roundness?
.004" clearance on the rods (assuming you mean big end)? That would be pretty loose! Setting my 440 up, I've got .002 - .00225" clearance, on both mains and rods. But, I know my rods are true round on the big end, measuring three ways on each.

Just food for thought...
 
A couple of years ago I ran into a problem with poorly manufactured rod bearings. The bearings plasti-gaged ok but the engine became excessively tight as it went together. I found that the bearings were thicker at the parting lines by almost 0.001 and could see shiny spots where the bearings were touching the crank. Replaced the bearings with some clevites and it all went together normally. Very very rare but it does happen. Just something else to check......
 
i got the bearings with the kit, Clevites performance bearings.

im gonna be looking very close at a couple of rods here in a few minutes, for possible flash edges and stuff like that.

or maybe a bend rod, saw one of those many years ago on a friends 396 BBC
 
when using a radiused crank the rod bearings will need to be the narrow "N" type or have a chamfer.
 
the rod bearings are also marked on the backside as UPPER & LOWER,,, if installed wrong that will cause what you have going on.
 
I sure hope you did not damage the rods & crank hitting on it.
 
the rod bearings are also marked on the backside as UPPER & LOWER,,, if installed wrong that will cause what you have going on.

well, my friend, you get the credit for saving this engines collective ***!

yes, going with old tradition, i instinctively placed the bearing with the oil hole in it on the top, and that turns out to be labeled "bottom".

i now have .019 side clearance, and im pretty sure after i re inspect the rest of the engine, things will be good to go.

again, thank you very much!!!
 

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