ibsorgn
Well-Known Member
A number of months ago I wrote to over a dozen engine builders around the country or, maybe I should say within a days drive of where I live, to submit bids for a 500ci+ stroker motor (didn't care if it was a B or RB). However my request was a little different from the normal requests that these builders get, at least that's want many said, as I specified a list of performance specifications rather than parts specifications and/or brands.
Basically what I was wanting was a street motor with lots of low end grunt, decent manners and low maintenance. More specifically I wanted a 500+ci, capable of producing 600tq at 3200rpm and holding it for a minimum of 1000rpm. Maximum hp had to be developed inside of 5500rpm with a minimum of 1hp per ci. Motor should be able to rev safely to 6000rpm. I consider these attributes to define what I term as a low RPM motor. The only boundaries I set were a minimum of 10" of vacuum, hydraulic lifters, maximum converter needed at 3000, B body oil pan, straight spark plug angle, maximum 93 octane, aluminum heads and if possible a dual plane manifold. Motor had to be complete including carburetor , distributor and waterpump. Dyno and tuning must use my components in effect saving me the cost of having to tune the motor and knowing exactly what the HP and TQ the motor would generate as well as making it a plug and play install. Then the big caveat, which caused 70% of the builders to bale, build the motor $8,500, which includes the block!
I'm sure many of you are laughing due to my relatively low performance requirements but, believe it or not, there in lies the rub. Simply put most builders are accustom to building for maximum output and damn the engine behavior and maintenance. I believe, they simply don't know how to throttle things down to meet specific criteria such as torque, manifold pressure etc while working within a small budget. Many told me they could pull a 100+ more horsepower than what I was asking for but of course at the expense of higher rpm which also equates to more quality parts which spells more cost. To me a street motor lives between 2500 and 4000rpm and that's where I wanted the power not at 6000+!
In my search for a builder most of the time I found that the builders were wanting to overbuild, and/or using premium components which are at odds with my budget. Most of the builders were quoting over 11K but I did have 3 that were in my budget or within $500 of it. One thing I found quite interesting were a couple of builders either did not run their motors or would not allow you to be present for the pulls. I thought to myself, how many people would not want to verify that the motor runs and produces the performance listed on their dyno sheet? I for one am not that trusting. I should also state that most builders were more than welcoming for my presents.
To shorten this story up I chose CME (Carolina Machine Engines) for several reasons. 1) they were the only builder to offer a warrantee, not promises but a written warrantee. 2) they only requested 25% down while others wanted 70% or more. Why is this important? Simply I don't like to put myself that far behind the eight ball. Should the builder not meet my specifications -what now? You have far more leverage with 25% down than 75%! 3) CME was able to show me dyno results of motors that would meet and exceed my requirements. Other builders wanted me to trust them that they would be able to deliver the performance and other criteria. Listen, I'm not saying they couldn't do what they said but I felt far more comfortable with a builder that had proven recipes in hand verses ones taking their best guess.
I visited CME this past Thursday were Richie, the sales manager gave me a tour of their facilities then introduce me to Bill, the man who assembled my 526ci RB engine and his brother John, who operates the dyno and does the tuning. After spending 1 1/2 hours at CME there is no question in my mind that I chose the right builder. I have no doubt that there are other good builders out there but CME met and exceeded all my performance specifications and miscellaneous criteria for just a tick over 8.3K.
I did however make a poor decision, at least in my mind, concerning some CNC work on the aftermarket heads. CME offers a variety of horsepower on their 522ci motors. Each HP increment reflects either a higher level of performance parts or greater degree of modifications to a part(s). Because I thought that it would be a good selling point to list that my motor had the heads CNC gasket matched and bowls blended, which is one thing that differentiates the 550 hp motor from the 525hp motor I decided to have that milling work done on my 526 (I requested that they build me a 526 verses their normal 522ci). But something unexpected happened and that is the torque fell by about 30fp. Normally their 525 and 550 hp motors put out 650+ foot pounds of torque, however my horse power did increase by 24 for a total of 549hp. Now some guys like to measure engines by hp but because I was wanting a street engine I tend to favor torque output. On the plus side I got the hp of their 550 horse motor but still maintained the vacuum and converter stall that made me choose their 525hp version. Not only did they deliver the 600tq I specified they hit 600tq at 3000rpm and carried it to 4500rpm, a 1500 rpm spread!
One thing I should point out is that CME assigns just one person to assemble the engine from beginning to end and Bill told me that he has built dozens and dozens of these 522s over the years and knows them very well.
http://vid1319.photobucket.com/albums/t666/ibsorgn/CME/Dynooutcell_zps71030efd.mp4
Basically what I was wanting was a street motor with lots of low end grunt, decent manners and low maintenance. More specifically I wanted a 500+ci, capable of producing 600tq at 3200rpm and holding it for a minimum of 1000rpm. Maximum hp had to be developed inside of 5500rpm with a minimum of 1hp per ci. Motor should be able to rev safely to 6000rpm. I consider these attributes to define what I term as a low RPM motor. The only boundaries I set were a minimum of 10" of vacuum, hydraulic lifters, maximum converter needed at 3000, B body oil pan, straight spark plug angle, maximum 93 octane, aluminum heads and if possible a dual plane manifold. Motor had to be complete including carburetor , distributor and waterpump. Dyno and tuning must use my components in effect saving me the cost of having to tune the motor and knowing exactly what the HP and TQ the motor would generate as well as making it a plug and play install. Then the big caveat, which caused 70% of the builders to bale, build the motor $8,500, which includes the block!
I'm sure many of you are laughing due to my relatively low performance requirements but, believe it or not, there in lies the rub. Simply put most builders are accustom to building for maximum output and damn the engine behavior and maintenance. I believe, they simply don't know how to throttle things down to meet specific criteria such as torque, manifold pressure etc while working within a small budget. Many told me they could pull a 100+ more horsepower than what I was asking for but of course at the expense of higher rpm which also equates to more quality parts which spells more cost. To me a street motor lives between 2500 and 4000rpm and that's where I wanted the power not at 6000+!
In my search for a builder most of the time I found that the builders were wanting to overbuild, and/or using premium components which are at odds with my budget. Most of the builders were quoting over 11K but I did have 3 that were in my budget or within $500 of it. One thing I found quite interesting were a couple of builders either did not run their motors or would not allow you to be present for the pulls. I thought to myself, how many people would not want to verify that the motor runs and produces the performance listed on their dyno sheet? I for one am not that trusting. I should also state that most builders were more than welcoming for my presents.
To shorten this story up I chose CME (Carolina Machine Engines) for several reasons. 1) they were the only builder to offer a warrantee, not promises but a written warrantee. 2) they only requested 25% down while others wanted 70% or more. Why is this important? Simply I don't like to put myself that far behind the eight ball. Should the builder not meet my specifications -what now? You have far more leverage with 25% down than 75%! 3) CME was able to show me dyno results of motors that would meet and exceed my requirements. Other builders wanted me to trust them that they would be able to deliver the performance and other criteria. Listen, I'm not saying they couldn't do what they said but I felt far more comfortable with a builder that had proven recipes in hand verses ones taking their best guess.
I visited CME this past Thursday were Richie, the sales manager gave me a tour of their facilities then introduce me to Bill, the man who assembled my 526ci RB engine and his brother John, who operates the dyno and does the tuning. After spending 1 1/2 hours at CME there is no question in my mind that I chose the right builder. I have no doubt that there are other good builders out there but CME met and exceeded all my performance specifications and miscellaneous criteria for just a tick over 8.3K.
I did however make a poor decision, at least in my mind, concerning some CNC work on the aftermarket heads. CME offers a variety of horsepower on their 522ci motors. Each HP increment reflects either a higher level of performance parts or greater degree of modifications to a part(s). Because I thought that it would be a good selling point to list that my motor had the heads CNC gasket matched and bowls blended, which is one thing that differentiates the 550 hp motor from the 525hp motor I decided to have that milling work done on my 526 (I requested that they build me a 526 verses their normal 522ci). But something unexpected happened and that is the torque fell by about 30fp. Normally their 525 and 550 hp motors put out 650+ foot pounds of torque, however my horse power did increase by 24 for a total of 549hp. Now some guys like to measure engines by hp but because I was wanting a street engine I tend to favor torque output. On the plus side I got the hp of their 550 horse motor but still maintained the vacuum and converter stall that made me choose their 525hp version. Not only did they deliver the 600tq I specified they hit 600tq at 3000rpm and carried it to 4500rpm, a 1500 rpm spread!
One thing I should point out is that CME assigns just one person to assemble the engine from beginning to end and Bill told me that he has built dozens and dozens of these 522s over the years and knows them very well.
http://vid1319.photobucket.com/albums/t666/ibsorgn/CME/Dynooutcell_zps71030efd.mp4
