'65 C body 413/727 swap into '67 B body questions

[Morrigan_Aria]

Here's the deal and I need some advice:

I have an opportunity to purchase a 1965 413/4 bbl and mated automatic trans, out of a 1965 Chrysler 300, this is an HP block; 59K original miles. Owner is an old mechanic and vouches for the condition of the motor. It runs good, and he is happy to have any checks made on it I choose. I feel the price is very fair. I've checked Summit and they have all the parts available, and they're about the same price as those for any other B/RB motor. I just spoke with the gents at Mancini Racing about this too. Since I am partial to 383 motors for the rpm, this would be a good fit as the 413 runs even higher rpm. Parts are readily available as they use regular RB parts except for mostly pistons (can bore out later). Mancini Racing recommended against boring out this 59K motor as it would be a big waste at this juncture with the limited mileage.

Stock performance specs for a '65 413 are 360 bhp @ 4800 rpm, and 470 ft lbs torque @ 3200 rpm, compression 10:1.

I'm considering swapping this into my 1967 Belvedere I, which currently sports alot of GTX equipment (I didn't do it) and a 318/727 combo. Belve already needs front suspension job anyway; looking into the disk brake conversion. Just installed a new fuel system from quarter panel forward, but I can buy another sending unit and get another fuel line bent up with 3/8" diameter. No big deal there. Car already has 8 3/4" suregrip installed (I think maybe 2.93 or 3.23s?) and I have another center section in 3.91 (I believe...I'm not opening up the bucket of skunk juice for the purpose of this post). I could install these gears, but probably wouldn't. No power steering, no power brakes.

My questions: Is this motor worth the hassle of the swap? I understand it can be bored out to 426 CID, but with 59K on it, I'm thinking of a light teardown and gasket kit for observation. Also, heads would be sent off for hardened valve seats. Are there any obvious issues/concerns I should worry about? Is there anything special I will need for this swap? The motor/trans are complete and he has all the other engine compartment components that will go with the unit. Mancini Racing pointed out I will have some problems with the transmission. Apparently 65 was the first year they transitioned from the ball/trunion to yoke on the tranny. Additionally, this was a CABLE-DRIVEN trans? I've never even seen that. He said unless I can get ahold of the shifter out of the 300 too, then I'm going to need a regular big block 727 or manual if I choose that route. Anyone have experience with this transmission?

The 300 came with factory power steering, power brakes and 8 ¾ rear with 3.23 Suregrip gears. The 300 might have some interesting optional equipment (like disk brakes, optional that year) that I might be able to scavenge such as the upgraded suspension components. Would any of these fit (I know the center section gears will fit)? Options available included disk brakes, torsion bars, etc. Alas, this 300 is not salvageable on her own.


Thanks for your assistance!

 

[69 Runner]

If you're gonna pop the heads you might as well replace them with906s, 452s, or 346s. Your heads may well have 1.60 exhaust valves, and the ports may not be as large. Also, that 65 intake may be a pretty low slung piece, and again you'd be better off with a 68-70 cast or an aluminum intake.

While you're there you should change the timing set. It will need it. And since you're there you might think about replacing the cam with something a bit larger (like a blueprinted stock cam).

Yes, the 65 trans was the last of the cable shifted ones, so you will have to do something about either changing the column, or use a 65 (or earlier) floor shifter.

 

[gtx69]

Be eaiser to just get a later trans 66 and up

 

[Deleted member 214]

Swapping to 906/452/346 heads means going from your closed (smaller) to open (larger) combustion chambers. That would cut compression. If it is too high for your tastes right now, that's a good thing. If you like it the way it is, it might be a disappointment after the swap. Just one more thing to think about.

 

[69 Runner]

Blueprint spec on the 65 heads is 73.5cc, but they will probably be much larger.....I would guess maybe 10cc +/-. (blueprint on a 906 is 79.5 cc, but in some cases are close to 90cc as cast) So technically if you wanted to swap to the later heads you could have them cut down to around 80cc and maintain your compression ratio.

 

[prhousejr]

More power....:yes:

 

[Morrigan_Aria]

Well...

I went to view this motor this afternoon. Mixed news!

Well, it isn't a 65. I think it's a 72, yes, from a motorhome. It does have a 727 behind it, but it's got some weird emergency brake thing on there. The guy says he can swap that e-brake out for the regular yoke for me. He says it will all fit. This trans also has regular linkage. He does have other BB 727's he said he would swap for me if it made me happier, but he guarantees the condition of this mated pair.

I know the motor mounts are different for the motor home/truck motors, and I have read that I will need to replace many bolt-on items to include a rear sump oilpan (I bet he has one), and get rid of that weird water pump. I've read there is a problem with putting on regular car heads as one section of the motorhome motor runs coolant through a port of the same location?

Does anyone know of a successful conversion for this combination? Additionally, I'm having trouble finding "performance" specs on this motor. Anyone? What about this transmission?

On the upside, he does have a real crossram intake stashed away....he didn't mention it but another guy did. ;)

 

[69 Runner]

Soooo this has the tall heads and water pump housing that attaches to the heads? You can change the housing and heads and be "normal" again. Those heads should also use the smaller plugs (I'm betting) and have "steam pockets" (read passages) around the plugs. That means there are 8 extra holes in the deck other blocks don't have. (no big deal & good for high compression motors)

Bottom line is this isn't a bolt and go kind of thing. So unless it's cheap (or the ONLY thing available) I'm not sure I'd jump on it

 

[Morrigan_Aria]

I'm heading back over there today to get some photos for reference. I sort of ditched work to run over there yesterday and check it out. By sort of, I mean I totally ditched work, and was thus unprepared and didn't grab a camera.

Today I've got the camera so I can take some reference photos. I'll post some later this weekend.

There are other RB motors available in my area, but all mostly out of motor homes. Seems people grab up the car motors and they're not heard from again. A local guy had this same setup in his Dart but has replaced it; I'm trying to find out if this is still sitting in his garage or not.

Now that I've been reading up more on the 413 (the '65 version :sad, I am more and more interested in that cid. I'm a big fan of the 383, plus I just like to be odd. Hell, my 67 2 door post is half GTX anyway (I didn't do it)...

Additionally, there is a big Mopar show in my area later in August. If I can't square up on a 413 by then, I'm sure I'll find one but for top dollar.