Adding beef to the 64 pushbutton trans?

[Montclaire]

I'm asking this here because it seems there are some quirks to the pre-65 torqueflite.

It looks like I cannot add the 70's "part throttle kickdown" to the push button throttle body, correct?

Can I still add the hemi/440+6 five disc drum and band, or do I need to use a four disc?

What the deal with the rear clutch drum being weak?

What exactly do I need to swap out in order to run a newer torque converter? I know the splines are different, but what has to be changed? I know the pump has to be swapped for a newer one, does that correct the spline issue?

Ok to use the 4.2 lever?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Moparsmitty]

I asked my trans guy and he said that he didn't know of any way to make a pre 65 Tflite have a part throttle kickdown. The later valve bodies have different controls (cable vs lever) and they are not interchangeable. I think a newer front pump could be used to used so that you could use a later torque converter. Not sure about the hemi clutches and drums but I doubt they fit this trans.
The early Tflite will take a fair amount of hard use and the valve body can be modified to make it shift harder if that's what you are looking for.
If you are running more than four or five hundred hp or doing a lot of racing, I would go with a later trans built with heavy duty internals and just go to an aftermarket gated floor shift. Any other opinions?

 

[wedgie]

Contact Pat Blais AKA Torqueflite Patty. You can find his stuff on ebag. I used a '65 727 behind a stroked 440 for years without any problems. The cable operated transmissions were used in the A990 hemi cars and held up very well.

 

[Hemicbx]

Changing the input shaft will allow you better variety in torque converters . The input shaft swap is pretty easy. Pull the front pump cover, pull the kickdown band out. Then grab the input shaft & pull it out. With the input shaft will come the front & rear clutch drums. For simplicity sake, move all those parts from the newer trans to your old one. You can do just individual pieces, but moving them all as a set will eliminate any concerns over wide/narrow bushing mis-match.

To add some beef, you could either machine the drum retainers for added clutches or get the thinner red eagle clutches & steels from A&A to add plates to it. Either of these accomplish the same clutch arrangement as the Hemi drum which is rare and/or expensive. I saw somebody has a 10% wider front band that is claimed to work with the stock front drum; can't remember who it was. Not as wide as the Hemi band, but does add extra friction capacity. A&A also now has solid front bands available with the red lining; I want one of those instead of the flexy thing that's in mine now. Some sort of shift reprogramming kit is always a good move to easy the slide on the friction parts.

Mine has machined clutch retainers in the front drum to accommodate additional clutches and it's been in there for 10 years. If I build another one, I'll go with the thinner red eagle clutches to add plates; it's easier.

4.2 lever is a good choice I hear; some say it's the best. I have a 5.0 lever and as many have experienced, there can be a shift overlap problem to sort out with that lever.


Like somebody above said, you can go pretty far on the engine without needing major tranny upgrades. Especially on a street car.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Changing the input shaft will allow you better variety in torque converters . The input shaft swap is pretty easy. Pull the front pump cover, pull the kickdown band out. Then grab the input shaft & pull it out. With the input shaft will come the front & rear clutch drums. For simplicity sake, move all those parts from the newer trans to your old one. You can do just individual pieces, but moving them all as a set will eliminate any concerns over wide/narrow bushing mis-match.

To add some beef, you could either machine the drum retainers for added clutches or get the thinner red eagle clutches & steels from A&A to add plates to it. Either of these accomplish the same clutch arrangement as the Hemi drum which is rare and/or expensive. I saw somebody has a 10% wider front band that is claimed to work with the stock front drum; can't remember who it was. Not as wide as the Hemi band, but does add extra friction capacity. A&A also now has solid front bands available with the red lining; I want one of those instead of the flexy thing that's in mine now. Some sort of shift reprogramming kit is always a good move to easy the slide on the friction parts.

Mine has machined clutch retainers in the front drum to accommodate additional clutches and it's been in there for 10 years. If I build another one, I'll go with the thinner red eagle clutches to add plates; it's easier.

4.2 lever is a good choice I hear; some say it's the best. I have a 5.0 lever and as many have experienced, there can be a shift overlap problem to sort out with that lever.


Like somebody above said, you can go pretty far on the engine without needing major tranny upgrades. Especially on a street car.

Some great info tight there:headbang:Some other upgrades to consider for higher HP levels are a manual valve body that has the shift kit included,a billit drum to protect the toesies and a 5 pinion steel planetary instead of the stock 4 pinion aluminum.This season I will be throwing over 900 HP and over 800 ft lbs of torque at my pushbutton trans.I don't plan on EVER switching from my buttons:sideways tongue:

 

[Montclaire]

A billet drum is a little more than I would need. haha I think my best bet is the red eagle clutches and a quality front band along with the 4.2 lever. Pat Blais is actually the one who had the rear clutch upgrade kit for sale, if you say he's on the level, then one of those will get the nod, too. The pump will be changed to the newer style for converter selection and I'm thinking a servo kit and governor swap should round things out.

Did pre-67 torqueflites use a different trans pan? I'm thinking that may be the case. Does anyone make a deep capacity version?

Thanks

 

[Montclaire]

Note, A&A does carry a couple deep pans, in steel and aluminum for 62-65.

 

[wedgie]

A billet drum is a little more than I would need. haha I think my best bet is the red eagle clutches and a quality front band along with the 4.2 lever. Pat Blais is actually the one who had the rear clutch upgrade kit for sale, if you say he's on the level, then one of those will get the nod, too. The pump will be changed to the newer style for converter selection and I'm thinking a servo kit and governor swap should round things out.

Did pre-67 torqueflites use a different trans pan? I'm thinking that may be the case. Does anyone make a deep capacity version?

Thanks

All the 727 pans interchange. The pickup and filter for the early trans is different because it also feeds the rear pump. I believe that Mancini has extended pickups if you want a deep pan. Dual inlet filters are available at NAPA.

 

[Moparsmitty]

All the 727 pans interchange. The pickup and filter for the early trans is different because it also feeds the rear pump. I believe that Mancini has extended pickups if you want a deep pan. Dual inlet filters are available at NAPA.

Wedgie is correct. If you get a deep pan, make sure that you get a filter extension to drop the filter/pickup to the bottom of the pan. Summit and others sell deep pans with the extension, filter, gaskets and everything you need included.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I recently replace my chrome deep pan with a B&M aluminum finned pan.The newer filter extensions are now 1 peice aluminum instead of the old Mopar 2 peice with the spacers to wrestle with when installing.The new pan also came with a port for temp sensor:headbang:

 

[Montclaire]

What's the 64 input shaft - 19 spline?

 

[rrowdy]

What's the 64 input shaft - 19 spline?

A 64 would be 19 spline. I'm pretty sure that '67' was the First year for the 24 spline input.

I'm in the process of changing my '63' trans for a 65 and adding the later input shaft among other mods.

If you're going to race it or have high HP, it's a good idea to install a bolt in spag also.

The early 19 spline TC's have few choices available unless you're willing to pony up for a custom.

 

[ninjapumkin]

Some great info tight there:headbang:Some other upgrades to consider for higher HP levels are a manual valve body that has the shift kit included,a billit drum to protect the toesies and a 5 pinion steel planetary instead of the stock 4 pinion aluminum.This season I will be throwing over 900 HP and over 800 ft lbs of torque at my pushbutton trans.I don't plan on EVER switching from my buttons:sideways tongue:

How do you like your Caltracs Hemi Itis?

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

When I went to Cal trac's,it was the ONLY adjustable choice.The only thing better would be a 4 link:tongue8:

 

[ninjapumkin]

When I went to Cal trac's,it was the ONLY adjustable choice.The only thing better would be a 4 link:tongue8:

Easy to install? Whats all needed.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Yes,it was just as "Easy" as replacing superstock springs.I went with the split mono leaf spring and thier cal-bar.Mine are so old,the Rancho shocks only have a 5 way adjustment,newer ones have 9:black_eye:

 

[ninjapumkin]

I have been hunting for good pics and instructions. Does it mount right to the original front hanger? Seems to help your car pretty well. Still have the adjustable pinion snubber going with the setup?

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I have been hunting for good pics and instructions. Does it mount right to the original front hanger? Seems to help your car pretty well. Still have the adjustable pinion snubber going with the setup?

No snubber!!:eusa_snooty:
Mounts on the exsisting front hanger.My springs are moved inboard,I did have to trim the front hanger for proper travel:toothy4:

 

[ninjapumkin]

Thanks for the input. Looks like imay have to sell my SS springs.

 

[62BT409]

The person who helped me on my '64 727, ball & tunion, push button was John at Cope Racing Transmissions Inc.