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Alternative energy is great until you run out of grant money

I heard the loan for that was under investigation, that was the middle of summer i think. Oil is the answer to a lot if we would harvest it hear instead of going into the poor house buying it from every other country.
 
Ron 73 said:
I heard the loan for that was under investigation, that was the middle of summer i think. Oil is the answer to a lot if we would harvest it hear instead of going into the poor house buying it from every other country.
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I agree. we got the oil, tap into it already, and drop the price of gas back to a dollar a gallon.
 
...and quite using corn for crappy gas substitute.
(Fuel mileage sucks, eats fuel systems and raises food prices for everybody)
 
I totally agree about drilling here. Again, enviro-nazi's effin up the economy because God forbid a moose might have to stare at a f$ckin pipeline.

I like the hydrogen idea. But then you would have to build nuclear plants to effectively seperate the hydrogen from the water in the quantity needed. But God forbid, even though they have no carbon emissions the spent fuel is going to kill us all!!! Quick, run for the hills!
 
Pipeline

70rr-brian said:
I totally agree about drilling here. Again, enviro-nazi's effin up the economy because God forbid a moose might have to stare at a f$ckin pipeline.

I like the hydrogen idea. But then you would have to build nuclear plants to effectively seperate the hydrogen from the water in the quantity needed. But God forbid, even though they have no carbon emissions the spent fuel is going to kill us all!!! Quick, run for the hills!
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:iamwithstupid: You know whats funny the freaken Bears, Moose & Carribou (spelling?) love the elevated sections of the pipeline it gives off heat & is shelter for them in the winter, when I worked in Barrow, Alaska in the mid 80's & lived in Palmer Alaska, the wild life was thriving in the areas of the pipelines, so their "Eco-Nazis, tree hugging, Non-Drilling" excuses don't fly, just liberal activist talking points, now there pulling the same crap with a oil drilling company in Colorado because of some off-shute strain of some obscure flower species that's not endangered... freaken Eco-Nazis:icon_fU:
 
And you can thank the eco-Nazi's for off shoring all of our manufacturing base and with it desperately needed jobs.
 
The tree huggers would love it here, there in the process of taking another 30 acres of ground and turning into a pile of wood chips, not leaving anything at all. its the third section in a ten-fifteen mile radius that looks like a bomb went off, Ive cut timber but we always left some to grow back.
 
Never been a fan of the "tree-lovin-bunny-huggers". But as a well-read person, I gotta say that "fracking" for natural gas IS starting to concern me. I get my water from a well. If you change the geology down there, there will probably be a consequence. Budnick...Their argument is that it "alters the natural migration and feeding patterns"! It may, but only for the SMART ones! ADAPT TO YOUR ENVIRONMENT!
 
Im not a tree hugger by any means but i do not like to see whats been going on around here, When i used to trap every year if you found for instance a small creek after you set your traps when you go back in a few days and the catch is dwindling down it was time to stop, save some for years to come you just don't take it all. These so called timber men arent leaving anything at all to grow back, at first i thought that someone was going to clear the stumps and make some farm ground, thats not the case.
As far as the water wells our water has been good for 30 + years hear from my well (lots of gas wells in the area). There is a community about 15-20 miles south west of us that my wife's brother bought a place he calls out in the country and he gets his water from a pond using a filtration system, tasted awful. He told us that 75 percent of the whole area has to do the same because of the gas wells, truth? i have no idea but there are a lot of wells there, ive heard of this in other places that the water tastes like salt, again, i don't really know if its because of the gas wells or not. I asked a buddy of mine that works for a drilling outfit and he said yes they can, BUT there has to be a lot of gas wells in any givin area and as far as i know there isint any facts confirming any of it. The bottom line is just how many people live in the areas of Alaska and other places they have the tree hugger's fighting all this? I think the wells need drilled, used, and stop going broke buying off of other country s holding there grip on us because we HAVE TO? no we don't.
 
Migrations

scotts74birds said:
Never been a fan of the "tree-lovin-bunny-huggers". But as a well-read person, I gotta say that "fracking" for natural gas IS starting to concern me. I get my water from a well. If you change the geology down there, there will probably be a consequence. Budnick...Their argument is that it "alters the natural migration and feeding patterns"! It may, but only for the SMART ones! ADAPT TO YOUR ENVIRONMENT!
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That's why they elevated the bulk of the pipe line in Alaska & because of the permafrost also, most people don't have a clue about the wild life up there, I don't think it was even 1 generation before they adapted to the new Pipe line, I'm sure the building of it was a bigger deterrent to the wild life, My step father Bob was a pipefitter/steamfitter/welder on the pipeline he said there were tons of animals even while they were building it, had to have several people on watch for Bears & Moose especially... The people that live there thru the winter Oct.-Apr. get a check from the oil proceeds, while I was living there it was I think "$2200 per person in the household" big help boost to the economy there in the spring...
 
A few years ago, I was looking into ways to lower my electric bill. Looked into solar and realized that the average cost was $10,000 per KW. So for $20,000, I could power a hair dryer on sunny days for 8 hours. Wind wasn't any better. Fracking.... there are plenty of videos showing the result of fracking. Flammable tap water.
 
Solar & wind

Crunchy_Frog said:
A few years ago, I was looking into ways to lower my electric bill. Looked into solar and realized that the average cost was $10,000 per KW. So for $20,000, I could power a hair dryer on sunny days for 8 hours. Wind wasn't any better. Fracking.... there are plenty of videos showing the result of fracking. Flammable tap water.
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The thing is it does work but is costly & takes forever to recoup your investment, I'm all for not polluting everything up, but a single solar panel will only run a 75watt bulb for 8 hrs if the batteries are at full charging capacity on a sunny day, that's pretty much only when they are new, my last house in Rancho Murieta Ca. Sacramento valley east of Sacto, hot SOB in the summer & nice breezes at night I had both solar & a small wind turban generators on my old house, running at full capacity with a sunny day & a slight breeze with 25 75watt panels on my roof it would almost stop my meter from turning while using regular electrical stuff in the house, with nothing on it would run backwards... After all is said & done it's only a 1300sqft well insulated, tile roofed, newer, all electric (no gas) house, I only had about a $70 electricity bill every month except summer $85-$90 per month with out the solar & wind running & it brought the summer bills down to $65-$70 in winter it did almost nothing for the bill to be reduced, maybe a couple of dollars a month... I didn't install the system it was installed by the previous owner.. I would say it's probably not worth the added installation cost & maintenance costs, in the long run it would take 30+ years to pay it back at that rate if you had no replacement costs in the mean time (there are costs related)... Not very cost effective in my opinion.... I'm all for conservation but that's ridiculous expectations on that scale, if everyone had them "maybe at best case" 10%-15% total energy saving & they are extremely ugly to look at....
 
Budnicks said:
The thing is it does work but is costly & takes forever to recoup your investment, I'm all for not polluting everything up, but a single solar panel will only run a 75watt bulb for 8 hrs if the batteries are at full charging capacity on a sunny day, that's pretty much only when they are new, my last house in Rancho Murieta Ca. Sacramento valley east of Sacto, hot SOB in the summer & nice breezes at night I had both solar & a small wind turban generators on my old house, running at full capacity with a sunny day & a slight breeze with 25 75watt panels on my roof it would almost stop my meter from turning while using regular electrical stuff in the house, with nothing on it would run backwards... After all is said & done it's only a 1300sqft well insulated, tile roofed, newer, all electric (no gas) house, I only had about a $70 electricity bill every month except summer $85-$90 per month with out the solar & wind running & it brought the summer bills down to $65-$70 in winter it did almost nothing for the bill to be reduced, maybe a couple of dollars a month... I didn't install the system it was installed by the previous owner.. I would say it's probably not worth the added installation cost & maintenance costs, in the long run it would take 30+ years to pay it back at that rate if you had no replacement costs in the mean time (there are costs related)... Not very cost effective in my opinion.... I'm all for conservation but that's ridiculous expectations on that scale, if everyone had them "maybe at best case" 10%-15% total energy saving & they are extremely ugly to look at....
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And by the time you factor in the permit costs it makes it worse. If it made sense you couldn't stop PG&E from using it and selling us the power produced by it. But who does benefit immediately is the city for getting the permit money, the contractor who installs it and China for making it, and more down the line I'm sure. It's kind of like a mortgage. By the time you pay the agent, the banker, the title company, the home inspector, the property tax, etc... No wonder the gov't has incentives for people to buy houses.
 
My thoughts

Meep-Meep said:
And by the time you factor in the permit costs it makes it worse. If it made sense you couldn't stop PG&E from using it and selling us the power produced by it. But who does benefit immediately is the city for getting the permit money, the contractor who installs it and China for making it, and more down the line I'm sure. It's kind of like a mortgage. By the time you pay the agent, the banker, the title company, the home inspector, the property tax, etc... No wonder the gov't has incentives for people to buy houses.
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We think the same about this stuff it seems, I'm an ex-contractor you have a hard time making any profit after Insurances, Unions, Planning costs, Govt. regs & permits & multiple additional usage & temporary fees, you name it they get you for it... It was like I was working for the govt. regulators & the insurance company... That's why, I ended up becoming a Golf Pro 15 or so years ago & not a very successful one at that...LOL..
 
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