AMD Front Frame Rails

[Martin Lucas]

Hi Everyone,

I hope this thread helps anyone that needs to replace a front frame rail. I had a damaged PS front frame rail close to the radiator support, not uncommon for our b-bodies. When I was looking for replacement parts, I could not find a good OEM one at the time. Maybe just bad timing. I looked into AMD and ordered one from Summit racing. I've been pretty happy with the rest of the AMD sheet metal I have received in the past. While waiting for the frame rail to arrive, I started removing the damaged one. That was my first bad move. After receiving the AMD frame rail, I was pleased with the quality of the frame rail. There were a couple of small differences that caught my eye, but nothing I couldn't deal with. Then i did a test fit and thats when things went down hill really fast. For starters, the replacement frame rail was over 1 inch shorter than OEM. So I started figuring out which side was shorter. I pulled frame rail all the way back to the trans/torsion frame. The fitment was terrible because thats where the frame rail was short. This caused the curve of the firewall to be in the wrong place and made the height of the frame rail wrong for the engine compartment, and ended the frame rail short in the engine compartment. This was also not an option because of k-member location, inner fender, front bumper brackets, you get the idea. I took pictures and emailed AMD.

I was hoping that I got shipped the wrong frame rail, maybe from a different generation or an e-body or something. So I get a response from AMD that they will measure the frame rails they have in inventory and compare to the pictures I sent. Next day I get a response that I was not expecting. In short, their frame rails are not correct and they dont have any idea when they will have a chance to adjust their tooling. Moral of the story: Don't remove OEM frame rail until you have a good replacement and are positive you need to replace the whole rail. You can use an AMD frame rail to Frankenstein repair an OEM frame rail, but you are much better off using an OEM rail. This part is way too important to safety and integrity, so I ended up finding a OEM frame rail in good shape on ebay. The Frankenstein frame rail will not be going on my car, and I am out $600.


AMD's part description and email responses to me are below.

Part description from AMD:
"Made from quality heavy gauge steel, each piece is built to original OE specs and has been test fitted by the restoration professionals at Auto Metal Direct. Don't get stuck with low quality cheap replacements parts, trust the pros at Auto Metal Direct."


Start of email (I had to turn embedded images into attachments):

Hi Zach,

I am in the process of replacing my 1969 B-body Charger passenger side front frame rail. I removed my old frame rail and started doing a mock up of the AMD frame rail. I immediately ran into fitment issues with the AMD rail. Please read the notes and see images. I hope I just got a bad rail or wrong part number and that your tooling isnt wrong.

Thanks,
Marty


AMD-391-1466-R
Frame Rail, Front Passenger Side, Steel, EDP Coated, Dodge, Plymouth, Each
(Mfr. #: 391-1466-R)


If the frame rail is all the way back against the perpendicular "transmission" frame rail, like the old one and the drive side frame rail, then the curved part of the frame rail is in the wrong location and puts the frame rail lower than the other side and is about 1 inch short of the radiator support, etc.

If I pull the frame rail away from the transmission frame, then I can match the curve of the firewall and the frame rail mates up properly to the radiator support, but is an inch short of the transmission frame rail.

This picture shows the gap when I properly line up the curve of frame rail with curve of firewall, and match up with radiator support. I would have to cut and weld more steel here to make this work. (see attached 1.jpg)



This picture shows the improper curve matching when I slide frame rail back towards transmission frame (see attached 2.png)


These pictures shows the 2 frame rails side by side starting at the same point. See where the AMD starts before the original? (see attached 3.png & 4.jpg)


Here is the big difference with the starting point of the firewall curve.
(see attached 5.jpg & 6.jpg)



Martin Lucas
Mar 20

to zach

Any update on this? Were you able to take any measurements?

Zach Huckleberry
Mar 20

to me

Martin,

Yes sir, I was able to get one of those pulled. Upon measuring and talking with my team here, what we have in stock is the same as what you have. Most guys that buy these parts are replacing the firewall, floor, frame rails and everything and do not typically run into issues. It seems that this only comes up when someone is using their original firewall and floor. We are looking to re-develop several of our parts and I suggested this to the owner of our company, so it will be looked into.


Unfortunately, I don’t have anything different for you on our shelf. I do apologize for not having a better answer, but that’s just part of producing reproduction panels. We find that we have an issue and we’ll start working to correct it. You’ll need to go back to Summit either way, if it’s something you can work with, they might can work with you on a credit for fixing/modifying the part. If it it’s not something you want to fool with, I’m sure you can return it for a refund.


Again, I apologize for not having a better answer for you but thank you for the call and the info. It’s guys like you that help us make a better product. I’ll try to get this added to our re-development list.


Zach Huckleberry
Auto Metal Direct



Martin Lucas
Mar 21

to Zach

Zach,

I know this is not your fault, but this is a pretty serious problem for me. I have already cut and drilled out my old frame rail. I would have repaired the old one if I had known the AMD frame rail would not fit properly, like it is advertised to. I pasted the verbiage from your website about this particular part at the bottom of my response.

What I think needs to happen/What I would like to see happen:

Fix your tooling so it is in fact OE specs and you wont have a bunch of pissed off customers. If you are planning on doing that, do you have an ETA? Please send me a replacement rail once that is done

My Charger is completely out of commission right now. I can fab up some extra steel to extend the AMD rail for the time being, but that wont ever look factory like it needs to, and the integrity will be lost due to cutting and welding at the most vital location.

I really don't want to have to share my experience with this part with Summit Racing and all the forums I am active in. I like AMD, I have used many of your parts and I appreciate what you guys do. However, I cannot sit back and accept a stance from AMD that the dimensions are wrong and you can modify or return. Returning is not an option for me, and that is not a good position for me. Please let me know how AMD wants to proceed.

" Made from quality heavy gauge steel, each piece is built to original OE specs and has been test fitted by the restoration professionals at Auto Metal Direct. Don't get stuck with low quality cheap replacements parts, trust the pros at Auto Metal Direct."
Thanks,
Marty

Zach Huckleberry
Mar 23

to me

Martin,


Again, I apologize. Unfortunately this is one of those things where we sell hundreds of these every year and have very few issues come up. As I stated prior, most guys are doing the floors and fire walls as well and don’t seem to have issues there but you also have to take into account the variance in the factory build quality. There was very little quality control back when these cars were new and so these parts are going to fit a little differently from car to car. Your car has a bigger gap but we could put the same rail on another car and it could have a much smaller gap.


As I also stated, I will make sure this goes onto our redevelopment list, but at this time I do not have an ETA on when that will happen. We are in the middle of developing our new Ford line with about 6 new models of cars that we’ll be doing parts for as well as new Mopar parts and then this redevelopment list. Our factory is cranking at about 110% right now so we’re doing the best we can but unfortunately when we’re talking mass production, this is not a quick fix, nor a cheap one. This will probably run us 100k-200k to get fixed when you factor in R&D and new tooling costs, so that has to be considered as well.


Again, I apologize. Since we’re a mass producer with about 15,000 parts in our system, there’s only so much I have to work with. My only other suggestion would be to return that one to Summit and give Stephens Performance a call. They operate a large vintage Mopar salvage yard in Alabama, they may have some clean used rails you could use.


Zach Huckleberry
Auto Metal Direct

 

[69 GTX]

I know this sucks for you, but I quickly found out not one single piece of AMD sheet metal will just lay right in where the oem was. That being said if it were me, I would cut the end of the rail off about 1 inch from the end. I would then place the front piece where it needs to be, put the back piece where it needs to be, then fab a piece to fill in the gap. By the time you smooth out the weld (weld on the inside first if you can) paint and put some undercoating on it you'll never know. Even though it's a PITA.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

The main reason I stayed away from AMD (or other) aftermarket frame rails was that they looked like they didn't have any of the factory holes/brackets/etc. on them, which I KNEW meant a lot more money in the frame shop. I ended up getting two from mopar mark

 

[rick68b5]

There is nothing that amd makes I'm really impressed with. I like using OEM frame rails that's why now I stocked up on OEM rails for the b bodys

 

[Martin Lucas]

I know this sucks for you, but I quickly found out not one single piece of AMD sheet metal will just lay right in where the oem was. That being said if it were me, I would cut the end of the rail off about 1 inch from the end. I would then place the front piece where it needs to be, put the back piece where it needs to be, then fab a piece to fill in the gap. By the time you smooth out the weld (weld on the inside first if you can) paint and put some undercoating on it you'll never know. Even though it's a PITA.

It was a PITA and still in the process of doing it. I am not happy with how it looks and concerned about its strength. Thats why I recently sourced an OE frame rail to put on instead. I'm going to hang onto the Frankenstein rail for a rainy day. I will post more pics of the rail once I finish welding it.

 

[rebel513r]

I used one from classic industries MB1866 it was pretty decent, couldn't get an AMD one at the time good thing I guess

 

[FrnkNsteen]

Well, .... I have to say this. I thought his response to you seemed honest and genuine. You have to remember that these replacement parts are for 40-50 year old cars that have seen a lot of mileage. Not only was the quality control not very good back then, but many of the cars have been on the road for over 40 years and some driven very hard. The bodies of these cars flex and move more than people care to admit.

I can say from personal experience that I have a LOT of AMD parts on my car and there were no major issues putting it together, or with the alignment. It wasn't that long ago that there weren't many options for body panels, and I'm personally glad that they make all the parts that they do. A LOT of cars went to the scrap yard because the panels weren't available to be able to fix them. I hope they keep working on new offerings for new and different cars. I think they do a good job, but that doesn't mean all parts are going to drop right in on all cars.

 

[Martin Lucas]

Well, .... I have to say this. I thought his response to you seemed honest and genuine. You have to remember that these replacement parts are for 40-50 year old cars that have seen a lot of mileage. Not only was the quality control not very good back then, but many of the cars have been on the road for over 40 years and some driven very hard. The bodies of these cars flex and move more than people care to admit.

I can say from personal experience that I have a LOT of AMD parts on my car and there were no major issues putting it together, or with the alignment. It wasn't that long ago that there weren't many options for body panels, and I'm personally glad that they make all the parts that they do. A LOT of cars went to the scrap yard because the panels weren't available to be able to fix them. I hope they keep working on new offerings for new and different cars. I think they do a good job, but that doesn't mean all parts are going to drop right in on all cars.

I agree with what you say and agree that AMD provides much needed parts. I have used many parts from them, and overall they are a pretty good fit. I will continue to use their parts too. These frame rails however were not up to par. It would be nice if we could get people to start posting their frame rail measurements so we can get AMD some good numbers if they decide to fix their tooling. My guess and what it sounded like from Zach at AMD is they are basing their tooling off their own AMD parts car, not an OEM/OE car. If thats the case, they should be advertising it that way, not "each piece is built to original OE specs and has been test fitted by the restoration professionals at Auto Metal Direct." This is where I think they cross the line. I hope we can get more feedback on here from people that have replaced or tried to replace front frame rails with AMD and see if there is a trend.

 

[Kern Dog]

I have a front stub from a 1970 Belvedere that I am going to use on a future project. Feel free to come by and measure it for comparison.

 

[66 Sat]

I had both sides repaired when the shock towers were replaced. There was rust on the UCA brackets which had spread into the frame rails. The chassis guy that fixed it is very good, has the full chassis jigs and is very thorough. He ended up taking the rails back a fair way to decent metal, but everything is back together now and both sides were within 1mm. Was an expensive exercise though...

 

[flypaper]

after many years in the hobby
nothing beats OEM parts
AMD or anything aftermarket is only a part of last resort.
if you stick by this mantra,
you will save money and a lot of frustration..

 

[MOPARENT]

Typical AMD, you're always the 'first one' to have an issue with their junk. I love how they act so surprised. Whatever.

 

[flypaper]

Typical AMD, you're always the 'first one' to have an issue with their junk. I love how they act so surprised. Whatever.

they lied to me and it cost them (got free parts)
because i was a pita and took it above the liar who answers the phone..

 

[Challenger340]

I think the proof of the AMD frame rails unsuitability, lies verifiably in the fact that OEM donor car frame rails do indeed "fit" on an existing OEM body ?
whereas,
very obviously the AMD frame rails are too short, and do not fit the OEM body as claimed.

Thx for the heads up.

 

[threewood]

While I am glad we have a nice selection of new metal, nothing will ever beat OEM. AMD stuff is like getting a 80% complete fabrication with the owners final 20% fitting and modification needed to make the part work.

I was lucky and received a complete front clip with my GTX as well as a complete donor roof. Both fit like a glove and were well worth the extra prep of removing spotwelds.

 

['68 Charger]

And yet when I have rust free, dry, SW sheet metal OEM frame rails for sale at the swap meets, people moan over my prices and say "I can buy new ones for that much". Go ahead douche bag, have fun.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Gee, Mark Worman @ GraveYardCars is always saying AMD this or AMD that! To hear him talk, it’s like the rails, pans, cross members and such just fall right into place.