Another Torqueflite Rebuild Question

[EngineerDoug]

OK got another question regarding my '74 Torqueflite rebuild. This unit will go behind a ~550hp big block - street use only. Here is a short summary of what I am doing:

Red clutches and Kolene steels
Red front band
Billet servos
Bolt in sprag
4 pinion planetaries
3.8 lever
Transgo TF2 shift kit
Deep aluminum pan
All new seals, washers & bushings

My question has to do with the number of springs in the forward clutch drum. How many should I use? Some suggest all 15, but I spoke with Transgo and they said use only 9. But they also told me NOT to use the red clutches & Kolene steels.....which runs counter to what virtually everybody suggests.

So how many springs - what is the tradeoff between more and fewer springs?

Thanks!

 

[R413]

I do what trans-go says. Do they know anything about a trans? Why are you using their shift kit but not all of their recommendations?

An automatic trans is all about timing of bands and clutches. Those reds grip and release different than the stock stuff which changes timing. The shift kit changes timing, as well as the lever and how many springs in the front drum.

You have the plan from the source that will have everything working together, now follow it.

 

[66Satellite47]

Just to be sure, did TransGo say 9 springs if you use the red clutches? You may want to consider an aftermarket valve body, not a "shift kit". Your build sounds like a street performance combo that goes beyond the "shift kit" area. I'd look at Cope or Turbo Action or A&A for a valve body & use 12 springs in the clutch pack with the red clutches & 3.8 lever.

 

[oldbee]

Waiting on ‘dvw’, but I’d go 12 at least(it’s been a long time). Agree it is all in the timing.

 

[66Satellite47]

The higher number of springs goes with the higher apply pressure, fewer springs can produce the "bang shift" feel, which is overlap, both front band & clutch applied at the same time. No good.

 

[EngineerDoug]

I understand that Transgo has been around for a long time, and have used their products successfully before. What gets me questioning them is when the experts differ. Not so much to quibble, but rather to learn something in the process.

What gave me concern was their (almost categorical) recommendation that I stay with the stock clutch & steel materials. My goal is a shift characteristic that is plenty firm for street use. I don't want to lay scratch on every shift - only when I get on it.

If anybody can give me further education on how the number of clutches plays with the friction materials and other parameters I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

[oldbee]

Doug my shift kit has been in for 30+ yrs. Don’t remember anything on number of springs. Everything you do in interrelated, everything. Mine goes firmer when rpm’s start going up & when manually shifting. How does it realize ‘manual ‘ over pure auto(?) don’t know but it works. What I remember is need higher line press. to overcome the clutch springs. Doug (and others)can provide a much more succinct explanation.

 

[dvw]

I run 15 with the turbo Action manual VB. However the 2/3 shift timing is a function of valve body calibration, lever ratio, and number of clutch springs. Follow the valve body makers recommendation. No need for Altos and Kolenes on the street. However if you already own I can't see why I wouldn't use them. Standard Raybestos tans will easily handle 700hp for years.
Doug

 

[66Satellite47]

My experience with a TransGo kit was in my tow vehicle. It was great, good clean shifts. But that was not my 550 HP drag motor. For that I used the Turbo Action manual valve body. With that valve body I ran both the 12 spring & 15 spring combinations with a 5.0 lever, red band, red clutches or the tan Turbo Action clutches. I would not recommend the 5.0 lever. 3.8 is good or maybe the 4.2. Again if you are in the 500+ HP range a shift kit is not the deal.