Any suggestions on 440 build?

[MoparOrNoCar1968]

I came across a 73-78 440 the other day while looking for a 68 model 383. Everything came with motor except the factory carb and intake . I ended up swapping my newest project which was a 71 bug for it. I just couldn't resist. The intake that came with it was a high rise Eldebrock torker 440.. You can tell it was a older one but it's in great condition.It also came with a Eldebrock 650 4 barrel which was brand new. It came with a distributor , caps , and wires. It's tore apart now. My plans for it are first taking it and getting it bored out .30 over due to buildup in cylinder walls. New forged pistons with valve release. The rest of my internals would be a comp cams Thumpr cam in it with a 298/303 advertised Duration cam in it with a new timing chain and lifters. Hooker headers , and flowmasters 10 series. To top it off I'm putting 4:10 posi traction in it . Any ideas or suggestions would be great . And maybe if someone would tell me how much torque and horsepower I should be looking to get out of it would be helpful. Thanks

 

[67 B-body]

Wow, that's an open question.... You could go so many different ways, and about as many opinions on how to get there....
What do you want from it? I wouldn't pick out parts based on a written description of how the engine sounds "Thumper cam". They do a good job of explaining in text, of how your cars going to sound..... LOL..
You should really sit down and decide what you want from the entire package "your car", and start selecting parts that will achieve your goals. Items like pistons, camshafts, cyl heads, carburetor, should all be chosen with specific criteria in mind, and they all need to play well together.
Explain to us what you want the thing to do, what kind of car it's going to be in, what kind of transmission you'll be using........ Those sorts of explanations will give some of us a platform to work from in recommendations...
Congrats on the score....

 

[HT413]

Over on the racers forum there are threads for 12 sec through 9 second cars. If nothing else, they make interesting reading and should give some rough idea of what has worked for others.

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

Depending on tire size, 4:10 with what I found for specs on that cam [ (.466/.488), (224°/234°), range 2-5k, ], wouldn't be my first choice. Nor would that cam. And, I wouldn't bother with forged pistons, with that cam. But as said above, figure out what you want the car to do, then build the engine.

 

[Richard Cranium]

What's the plans for the car; street or race?


If I were going to do a street 440, I'd stroke it as it will make gobs of torque & horsepower and yet it will be plenty streetable. I'd also look into overdrive for the transmission, especially with 4:10 gears.

 

[Cranky]

And that 650 will be like trying to breath through a straw. That 440 is going to need at least a carb that's closer to 4 straws

 

[MoparOrNoCar1968]

We'll all my buddies at school got novas with small blocks that barely rumble. I'd like my car to thump the ground pretty hard but still be able to run like a scalded dog . I'd like to keep from stroking for right now and let that be a project later on in life. I've only got budget of around $1500 to do everything. I had been looking at Hughes street cams and crane cams but I couldn't decide so help is needed on this build. Appreciate it

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

Good pistons (forged, no Hypereutectic crap) will run at least $650. Add in boring it, a good oil pump, timing chain, bearings, rings, balance, and you are at $1500. Not yet even buying a cam lifters, valves, springs, gaskets, good ignition and induction.

 

[MoparOrNoCar1968]

What I'll more and likely do is bore it , forged pistons, and then put a purple cam in that has a 292/292 advertised duration that doesn't require a bigger than factory stall which I'll still put in any way. Then new lifters and timing chain then I'll dress it up . Btw my dad told me he would swap me my 650 for his 750 double piper if I really wanted it .

 

[ga66mopar]

Make sure you request the machine shop to use torque plates when they bore it. They usually charge around $40 but it makes for better ring seal. There are a lot better choice of cams out over the purple cam. It sounds good but it has low vacuum at idle and is a little soft on bottom end torque but it does come on good at 3500 RPM and up. If I was going to use the purple cam I would advance the cam 4 degrees to improve on the bottom end torque.

 

[MoparOrNoCar1968]

Yes sir, that's what my dad was telling me . I want it to be able to thump to around 3000 Rpms as then my exhaust system will take over. My overall goal is to have a street/strip 1/4 monster .

 

[Cranky]

What kind of car is this engine going in?

 

[Budnicks]

Performance 101 ; 1st & foremost have the bottom end ballanced with what ever hardware, rods, pistons, converter, balancer, so the bottom end won't beat itself up, make sure to resize the rods @ a minimum & use new performance hardware... then equally as important, 1a get some "good heads" or spend about the same money & have yours gone thru & ported, especially in the pockets, biggest single item you will make power with, or won't with out a good set of heads, on a Mopar RB Wedge, the heads are a big choke point {use good high quality head gaskets}... if you use the stock cast iron heads, get a good set of new S/S valves & a multi angle racing/performance valve job... get a proper size style cam, valve springs, retainers, locks, shafts, rockers & hold downs, suited for your goal/intended usage or driving habits, especially if the majority of driving will be on the street... if you need more converter because of camshaft & gear choices, than get a higher stall speed converter too, it's allot more than the just engine, the whole car needs to work together... camshaft lift doesn't really hamper you much {to an extent up-to 0.520" gross lift with stock valve-train, valve guides & non-adjustable stamped steel rockers} IMHFO it's too much duration on a street/strip combo that will hurt your overall combo, make the car really temperamental on the street... a properly suited & size fuel system, fuel pump & fuel lines {3/8" or #6 A/N minimum}, min. 3/8" fuel pick-up sending unit in the fuel tank, an adjustable fuel regulator is a good idea if you go with a high pressure fuel pump & use a proper sized carb {the Holley 750 DP is a great carb, tuned properly}, the Edelbrock Torker is a decent all around intake manifold, not ideal maybe but will work fine... Get a K&N or other gauze type free flowing air filter... get a se of 1-7/8" headers not some $99 cheapos that will drive you nuts getting to plugs & burning up plug wires, don't go to big on the tube size either... get a 2-1/2"-3" mandrel bent exhaust system, with an X or H-Pipe installed in the proper location, with free flowing mufflers... get a good quality oil pan with more capacity than the stock ones & use a windage tray {not too deep of a pan like 6-7qt. & 7" deep max, if your going to street drive it allot} & get a quality HV oil pump too, don't use a worn out oil pump, use a good quality oil & oil filter, not some $0.99 cent POS... get a good electronic ignition system & Orange or Chrome box CEI-ECU, get a hotter coil, use with low ohm resistance spark plug wires, to match the hotter ignition... a good properly sized radiator & cooling system is a must, performance mods have a tendency to create allot more heat, when you make more compression & more power burning more fuel higher BTU's is the results, get a better than stock water pump to move more fluid thru the cooling system... the pistons & rings need to be chosen for your intended usage also, don't bore the block anymore than you have to, use good tri-metal bearings with quality new rod bolts & hardware, not the stock weak, bolts, washers, nuts/hardware {don't skimp here}... if you do these simple basic things, no mater the combo, it will be a good performing & longer lasting 440 combo... your cylinder head & camshaft choice, will probably be the most important choice in your engine combo... good luck & happy Moparing, doing right the 1st time, it's not cheap, save a little longer & do it right, spend the money in the correct places... but it's far cheaper than doing, it all over again because your were a cheapskate the 1st time around...

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

The 509 (292 duration) requires much more than a stock converter, WILL require adjustable rockers (the stock stamped ones wallow out), and compression. You just said you only had $1500 to build it. Building what you're talking about will be much higher.
But, if all you want to do is stomp Novas, a mild 440 built right will do that easily. Get away from the cams that you keep talking about, all of them rev way higher than what you need, this isn't a small block Chevy. Look for something good from 1800 rpm to 4800.

 

[MoparOrNoCar1968]

What I'll probably do is get it bored , new pistons , new rockers, lifters, mild cam, timing chain, bottom ed balanced . Then new ignition, headers, header wrap . 3 inch exhaust . Stall converter and have a sweet little motor . It may take longer but in the long run it will save me time and me doing it again. I really appreciate the knowledge and you sharing it with me . Thank you

 

[67 B-body]

What I'll probably do is get it bored , new pistons , new rockers, lifters, mild cam, timing chain, bottom ed balanced . Then new ignition, headers, header wrap . 3 inch exhaust . Stall converter and have a sweet little motor . It may take longer but in the long run it will save me time and me doing it again. I really appreciate the knowledge and you sharing it with me . Thank you

Good choice....
Remember to address the rear end gear ratio too...... It has to work with the camshaft and converter. I've read some pretty horrific combinations regarding camshaft range, gear ratios, and converters that can't possibly work with the gear ratio......
I would reccomend finding a camshaft first that fits your intended use, match the gear set to keep your rpm in the best operating range of the camshaft, and then select a converter to match the weight of the car / camshaft / AND not so high that it heats up like crazzy because of some highway gear chosen for easy driving....

 

[Propwash]

Welcome aboard. I'd start at the cylinder heads and go from there. If she isn't going to breath, opening the valves further and longer, and dumping in more fuel isn't going to do a thing for you. Those 452 heads could definitely use some Porting/CNC love. Heck, $50 bucks on a DIY port kit to clean up the bowls and smooth stuff out would help you out quite a bit.

Good luck!

 

[67Satty]

Just getting basic work/valve job (no porting) on the iron heads will cost you in the neighborhood of $600. You can get some Speed Pro forged "6 pack" replacment pistons for about $400. Some people don't like them because they are heavy but it's a quick, inexpensive way to end up with some pistons that are closer to zero deck.

That old Torker intake you have is a keeper. It holds its own in intake shootouts against all the others. I'd shop around for an 850 Holley or you can get a Holley 3310 750 vacuum secondary used for dirt cheap, there's tons on eBay. The 750 would probably be more responsive around town at the expense of a tiny bit of top end. Consider a solid lifter cam because adjusting valves is not hard to do and it doesn't have to be done that often anyway. Getting a feel for setting proper preload with hydraulic cams is trickier than just setting valves with a feeler gauge IMHO. If you keep the valve lift under .510, there's less work that is going to need to be done to the heads. There are some Racer Brown grinds that would fit the bill, I think there is even a solid lifter Comp Cams cam that is .507 lift with duration @ .050 in the mid 230s which will give you a nice little rump while being totally streetable. I like your 4.10 gear as long as you have tires at least 28" tall or so.

 

[MoparOrNoCar1968]

Would you know what heads came with motor? But yessir I'm going to be running 26 inch drag radials on prostars. I've been looking around at cams and I'm fine with downgrading thump for bottom end power. And for carb choices I've found a predator carb that is a 390 cfm to a 900cfm. It's only suppose to use what it needs. I'm going to start with the cam , timing chain first and when I get my money rounded together my plans are to bore the motor and then get my pistons but I will definitely look to your advice.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Plain and simple: You can build a high 12 second 4000 lb car using your 440 components (no stroker cranks, etc..) for dirt cheap and almost no "trick" aftermarket parts if you do it right. Do it wrong and you will spend a lot more money and have nothing but problems.