Borgeson Update

[EngineerDoug]

Hello all,

Just a month or so ago I installed a Borgeson power steering box in my '68 B-body. I retained the existing Saginaw power steering pump. The other day the weather allowed me to take it out on an extended cruise up and down a local mountain highway. The steering feel was more precise than the previous Firm Feel unit, BTW. Just before I got back home I noticed a reduction in power steering assist. Upon pulling into the garage I checked the temperature of the power steering pump, and it was nearly 200 degrees.

It dawned on me that some folks noted a loss of power assist if the fluid gets too hot. I also recalled that Borgeson recommends a power steering cooler. I had thought this might only be necessary if I did autocross or something of that nature. Clearly that was a wrong assumption. So I have a universal style cooler on order and will install it in the return line from the box to the pump; I would expect this to solve the problem.

Just an FYI for those who might think they don't need a cooler.

 

[Kern Dog]

Power steering coolers are very simple. They just fit inline of the return hose. This was from a Dodge minivan.

 

[ckessel]

Plus a filter in the return line.

 

[Wietse]

Plus a filter in the return line.

Good call also.

When I installed my Borgeson box I added the cooler straight away, as recommended.
Depending on the climate in your area, it is better to get a "plate" type cooler compared to the tube cooler.
There is some more efficiency in the plate type coolers and since these Borgeson boxes seem to produce quite some heat you will be happy with some over-kill cooling capacity during those hot summer months. (also consider the global warming into your BTU calculations )

 

[69ChargerR/TSE]

Plus a filter in the return line.

What type of filter?

 

[Kern Dog]

This rebuilt pump I bought had a reservoir housing with a nylon mesh screen inside. It was just inside of the return line nipple. I'm not sure of another way to implement a filter. Of all the pumps that I've used in the past, I don't think that I've used an external filter before.

 

[Wietse]

You could use an in-line filter with removable filter element, either replacement filter or screen mesh.
I looked before but found most of those filter housings have those AN fittings, a model with hose barbs is easiest. Or use adapters (AN-hose barb).
Think a model with wire mesh will not produce much back pressure and will hold most contaminants.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Good call also.

When I installed my Borgeson box I added the cooler straight away, as recommended.
Depending on the climate in your area, it is better to get a "plate" type cooler compared to the tube cooler.
There is some more efficiency in the plate type coolers and since these Borgeson boxes seem to produce quite some heat you will be happy with some over-kill cooling capacity during those hot summer months. (also consider the global warming into your BTU calculations )

Getting ready to order parts to do this conversion on my car. Do you mind sharing the part # for the plate type cooler you used? Hopefully it can be sourced from Summit?

 

[Wietse]

Getting ready to order parts to do this conversion on my car. Do you mind sharing the part # for the plate type cooler you used? Hopefully it can be sourced from Summit?

This is the one i am using.

Derale Cooling Products 33601 Derale 9000 Series Fin and Plate Transmission Coolers | Summit Racing

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

This is the one i am using.

Derale Cooling Products 33601 Derale 9000 Series Fin and Plate Transmission Coolers | Summit Racing

Hello all,

Just a month or so ago I installed a Borgeson power steering box in my '68 B-body. I retained the existing Saginaw power steering pump. The other day the weather allowed me to take it out on an extended cruise up and down a local mountain highway. The steering feel was more precise than the previous Firm Feel unit, BTW. Just before I got back home I noticed a reduction in power steering assist. Upon pulling into the garage I checked the temperature of the power steering pump, and it was nearly 200 degrees.

It dawned on me that some folks noted a loss of power assist if the fluid gets too hot. I also recalled that Borgeson recommends a power steering cooler. I had thought this might only be necessary if I did autocross or something of that nature. Clearly that was a wrong assumption. So I have a universal style cooler on order and will install it in the return line from the box to the pump; I would expect this to solve the problem.

Just an FYI for those who might think they don't need a cooler.

Either one of you have any hissing noise from the box or pump during idle or low speed driving? Some have reported this. I'm trying to figure out if this thing they're hearing is due to install error or something inherent to the system?

 

[Wietse]

Mine has no noises that i noticed.
Using a stock saginaw pump.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Awesome. Was hoping that's what you'd say. Thanks. I have a stock saginaw pump also with Firm Feel Stage 2. The off center play is driving me crazy.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Mine has no noises that i noticed.
Using a stock saginaw pump.

did you buy the whole $849 kit with the S shaped line and fitting? I'm thinking if I'm using my stock newly rebuilt Saginaw pump I won't need those so just planning to order the Box, no-cut coupler and external cooler..

 

[Wietse]

I have a stock saginaw pump also with Firm Feel Stage 2. The off center play is driving me crazy.

Previously i had a Steer & Gear stage 2 box, smooth and all but had the center slop which felt really uncomfortable at speed over 50mph.
This Borgeson box solved all that, i also installed a reman saginaw pump.
Never did any pressure adjustment or whatever and is running fine so far, guess i did 1000-1500 miles with it now.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Previously i had a Steer & Gear stage 2 box, smooth and all but had the center slop which felt really uncomfortable at speed over 50mph.
This Borgeson box solved all that, i also installed a reman saginaw pump.
Never did any pressure adjustment or whatever and is running fine so far, guess i did 1000-1500 miles with it now.

Nice to hear! One more for ya - what power steering fluid are you using? I know that some have had problems if they used certain types with this box like Redline. I think I had read from KD's thread that Bergman or Borgeson are now offering their recommended fluid.

 

[Wietse]

I bought the items separate at Summit. (check P/N on below links)
At the time of purchase i was not aware of Berman their kit, not sure if they sell separate items?
Not sure what year/model car you have, just check the sector shaft size you have, either 1-1/8" or 1-1/4".
Also i used the universal joint style steering coupler which requires cutting and drilling of the steering shaft.
Bergman has the OEM style coupler which is a direct replacement of the OEM and does not require drilling etc, up to you what you go for.
I am currently using a Dexron IID ATF fluid, although not recommended.
On this side of the pond it is not easy to get any fluid like in the US, so since i had 10ltr standing here i decided to use that. (Since what i am using also states the same recommended GM coding i do not fear using the Dexron IID, and with an oil cooler in there temperatures should be maintained within limits)
Bergman and Borgeson indeed have a recommended oil which is basically a GM style power steering fluid.
Since you are in the US i would order the recommended fluid with it.

Below is what i used. ( since i also had a brand new pump i did not include it)

P/S Conversion 62-72 Mopar 1-1/8" Sector Shaft
Steering Box Adapters 16MM X 1.5 to -6AN
P/S Hose Kit, Saginaw Pump to Mopar Conversion Box V-8
Mopar Steering Coupler

 

[ckessel]

Some of the power steering hose companies have an inline filter available. Also same filter is used for inline on auto trans. Check with companies who have trans service packages. They generally contain a magnet too which is beneficial. While not needed, not a bad idea to add on so you protect your investment in the steering system. 3/8" inline trans or p/s filter.

 

[417guy]

Either one of you have any hissing noise from the box or pump during idle or low speed driving? Some have reported this. I'm trying to figure out if this thing they're hearing is due to install error or something inherent to the system?

I’ve had the Borgeson by Bergman in my road runner for over a year. from the start I noticed a slight hiss at idle, and when I move the steering wheel slightly it increases . Also, plan to install a cooler, it has always had a lack of assist when warmed up. Went to a big show 2 weeks ago, sat in line idling and creeping for an hour. Ambient temp was about 75. When got ready to back in parking space, had very little assist. This has been common since installed. My pump was rebuilt by a local rebuilder who I trust. I have only one shim in the Saginaw pump. Hope the cooler helps !

 

[Wietse]

it has always had a lack of assist when warmed up.

What oil do you use?
Quite sure to say your oil gets too thin once hot, either change fluid (depends on what you use atm) and/or add a cooler.

 

[rad savoy]

on my 63 savoy with a 440 and dougs headers, the borgeson unit is a little close to the header but with the derale cooler and lucas power steering fluid, after 3 summers= zero problems, no leaks or hissing , Ralph