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couple tech questions

benno440

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getting car ready for big day at the circuit track.

car is running fairly good but am having a few issues.

my setup has always been really hard to tune.

It is sometimes hard to start when hot
at low rpm and low speed it surges a bit.
when at low rpm and smash the pedal there is a slight (puff) flat spot.
what would be the best way to tune these out or get them a bit better? retard or advance? lean or rich

for those that dont know my setup or have forgotten i can let you know
 
Flat spot sounds like an accelerator pump. Dried out? Use a neoprene one. Also you can change the timing of when the plunger hits.

I don't know your setup or carb being used.

Starting hard when hot? What starter is being used? Make sure your carb isn't leaking down. How much timing do you have in it?
 
Need to know carb ? When u say hard to start when hot, do you mean cranks slowly or cranks normally just turns over much longer b4 starting. Does it seem to run better in much cooler weather ? few more details needed to be able to help :)
 
He's running dual Eddies. My car has started acting up recently because of the heat, starting hard (fuel boiled out of the bowls), sputtering at low rpms (vapor locking) and unpredictable starting once warmed up. My issues are only present when it's hot out, runs beautifully as long as it's below 90 outside. I agree about the flat spot being the accelerator pump but I'm not as familiar with the Eddie setup as far as getting more or less squirt (could be either).
 
setup is 440-505 252 @ .50 hyd cam, dual quad 500cfm eddies, clay smith pump and race pumps regulator. currently running 19* initial i think 37* total as i am still using the black MSD bushing.

when starting hot, cranks over normal speed (fast) have to hold pedal flat to floor for about 10 secs before it starts, wont start at all with no pedal. it runs the same in all weather conditions that i can notice

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any lower initial timing and it runs bad

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i could probably increase but then need custom distributor bushings made to keep total down
 
when starting hot, cranks over normal speed (fast) have to hold pedal flat to floor for about 10 secs before it starts, wont start at all with no pedal. it runs the same in all weather conditions that i can notice

Not being there when you're starting it, sounds like it might be flooded, holding pedal on the floor until it starts. That's either one or both carbs are leaking down or gas is boiling out, entering the intake.
I can't think of any bb that I have started, that didn't like a shot or two before starting. I'm thinking on the other side of the spectrum here. If you would do an inspection, down in the carbs before you fire it up, when hot, and determine if it's really wet with fuel. Sight and smell.
When it finally fires off, is it loaded up, rich exhaust?
 
yeh definetly loaded up. big puff of fuel smoke comes out, '

I don't want to get too technical here,

I just need to know in which direction is the right way up or down, retard or advance etc etc. you get what I mean?
 
Have you tried to just crack open the throttle a bit for a hot start? I ran a pair of 750 TR carbs and that's all I had to do to restart hot. If I matted it, it was flood city. What do your plugs look like after a run?
 
I think....it's this "new" gasoline formula they are giving us!
Lots of research outhere pointing to the new formula.
It is set up for Fuel-injection systems...maintained at pressure.

It supposedly evaps quickly in carbs...
Causes many problems.
 
If it is gasoline that is too hot then adjusting the timing will not help. 2 attacks to this issue and might have to do both. First is to run a carb insulators to prevent boiling fuel. Best guess is 1/2 inch, that should not mess with hood clearance too much, but might depending on air cleaner. Other to try, if that was not enough then you might have to run a fuel return line. I have changed the fuel filter to a vapor line model that has a 1/4 inch return line back to tank. I have heard of using Holley jets inside the rubber line to restrict some of the flow back. I think I had heard that Chevrolet used .110 jet. For return line must solder metal tube in fuel sender. Good time to change other line to 3/8 if not already. The fuel return line setup helps more with vapor lock.

Warning: if you change the main feed line there might be a layer of water near the bottom of the tank that WILL give you running problems for about 30 seconds for every drop. One of those ask me how.....
 
If it is gasoline that is too hot then adjusting the timing will not help. 2 attacks to this issue and might have to do both. First is to run a carb insulators to prevent boiling fuel. Best guess is 1/2 inch, that should not mess with hood clearance too much, but might depending on air cleaner. Other to try, if that was not enough then you might have to run a fuel return line. I have changed the fuel filter to a vapor line model that has a 1/4 inch return line back to tank. I have heard of using Holley jets inside the rubber line to restrict some of the flow back. I think I had heard that Chevrolet used .110 jet. For return line must solder metal tube in fuel sender. Good time to change other line to 3/8 if not already. The fuel return line setup helps more with vapor lock.

Warning: if you change the main feed line there might be a layer of water near the bottom of the tank that WILL give you running problems for about 30 seconds for every drop. One of those ask me how.....

Yep I use a restrictor too, 0.100 main to get 5.5psi at the needle with a mechanical pump putting out 7. Jet size depends on setup (rubber lines vs steel, pump pressure, total volume, etc). My carb likes 5-5.5. You can also use a return-type regulator to do the same thing. If you dont have a return line you can just use a regulator alone set to spec pressure. The goal is to keep the pressure high enough at the carb to not surge WOT, but low enough not to flood when cruising around or idling.

Also check float level. If the float setting is higher than spec you risk consistent loading up of the engine.
 
If it is gasoline that is too hot then adjusting the timing will not help. 2 attacks to this issue and might have to do both. First is to run a carb insulators to prevent boiling fuel. Best guess is 1/2 inch, that should not mess with hood clearance too much, but might depending on air cleaner. Other to try, if that was not enough then you might have to run a fuel return line. I have changed the fuel filter to a vapor line model that has a 1/4 inch return line back to tank. I have heard of using Holley jets inside the rubber line to restrict some of the flow back. I think I had heard that Chevrolet used .110 jet. For return line must solder metal tube in fuel sender. Good time to change other line to 3/8 if not already. The fuel return line setup helps more with vapor lock.

Warning: if you change the main feed line there might be a layer of water near the bottom of the tank that WILL give you running problems for about 30 seconds for every drop. One of those ask me how.....


I don't have fuel boiling issues. I have 2 x 2" carb spacers, I also have a return line from regulator to tank, I have a check valve located near the tank. my lines are all high temp

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Yep I use a restrictor too, 0.100 main to get 5.5psi at the needle with a mechanical pump putting out 7. Jet size depends on setup (rubber lines vs steel, pump pressure, total volume, etc). My carb likes 5-5.5. You can also use a return-type regulator to do the same thing. If you dont have a return line you can just use a regulator alone set to spec pressure. The goal is to keep the pressure high enough at the carb to not surge WOT, but low enough not to flood when cruising around or idling.

Also check float level. If the float setting is higher than spec you risk consistent loading up of the engine.

float level is fine, spark plugs a little rich, You guys could be here all day throwing suggestions I have been through it before, my setup is a very hard one to tune. I just need to know which way to go to better it as it will never be perfect unless I change some components

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If it is gasoline that is too hot then adjusting the timing will not help. 2 attacks to this issue and might have to do both. First is to run a carb insulators to prevent boiling fuel. Best guess is 1/2 inch, that should not mess with hood clearance too much, but might depending on air cleaner. Other to try, if that was not enough then you might have to run a fuel return line. I have changed the fuel filter to a vapor line model that has a 1/4 inch return line back to tank. I have heard of using Holley jets inside the rubber line to restrict some of the flow back. I think I had heard that Chevrolet used .110 jet. For return line must solder metal tube in fuel sender. Good time to change other line to 3/8 if not already. The fuel return line setup helps more with vapor lock.

Warning: if you change the main feed line there might be a layer of water near the bottom of the tank that WILL give you running problems for about 30 seconds for every drop. One of those ask me how.....

this is my fuel line setup.

* standard tank with vent line.
1/2" fuel line from tank to 1/2 check valve just above diff
1/2" line from valve to filter in engine bay
1/2" feul line from filter to clay smith mech pump
1/2" fuel line from pump to regulator
2 x -6an lines from regulator to carb
-4an line from racepumps regulator back to fuel filler neck at tank

all brand new, tank is brand new. I don't seem to have fuel issues

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THANKS SO FAR GUYS
 
when it has sit for a few days it cranks over for a bit before it starts but that's probably expected from a mechanical pump.
when really hot and go to restart I have to hold flat to start it and big puff of smoke (fuel smoke) comes out exhaust then it runs fine. when warm and sat for about 20 mins or more it starts fine with no pedal pump
 
when it has sit for a few days it cranks over for a bit before it starts but that's probably expected from a mechanical pump.
when really hot and go to restart I have to hold flat to start it and big puff of smoke (fuel smoke) comes out exhaust then it runs fine. when warm and sat for about 20 mins or more it starts fine with no pedal pump

It may not be fuel could be combination of ignition or timing, but it's worth going through the carbs. Having to start up with the pedal to the floor definitely sounds like a "clear flood" type situation. Check out the edelbrock manual and vids, there is a reason they harp on 7/16" float height and 15/16" drop...eddy knows that these carbs can flood from mis-adjusted floats. See the FAQ:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/misc/tech-center/carb-faq.shtml

Also the height could be right, but there may be junk in the needle and seat in one or both carbs, keeping it stuck open allowing fuel to leak past and load up the intake as it runs.

High fuel pressure can also cause flooding with both the edelbrocks and the holleys, 5.5psi is ideal and 6psi is max for EB. For holley 6 is ideal and 7 is max, 7.5 it will flood (numbers from the manufacturers).
 
Ok followed the advice from you guys, I just went through my whole fuel system and cleaned it all, cleaned out carbs and checked float levels and cleaned out needles etc. my float level was not too bad except the float drop level was half inch too low, looks like that would be draining the carbs more than needed and I rechecked fuel pressure and it was at 3 psi, bumped it up to 5.5psi now and wow, I haven't taken it for a spin yet but throttle response and crispness is really good now and no flat spot yet.

see how it goes later
 
Benno, Float drop being off by that much could have contributed to your problem. It may have allowed the needle to drop so far out of the seat that it got cocked a little sideways and stuck partially open. Glad you found some potential problems and hopefully, all is well in the land of Aus...
 
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