Does mini starter need an external relay?

[matthon]

62 Dart, American Auto Wire full harness/fusebox/mega fuse block/horn relay/dimmer switch/headlight switch.
Bought a mini starter and a Denso alternator.

AAW wiring diagram below, everything mentioned is installed.

Stock ignition switch has BAT, ACC, SOL, IGN1, IGN2.

Pink IGN wire powers MSD and coil, and since IGN1 and IGN2 on the switch are start and run, I hooked both to the pink wire.

SOL shows a straight shot to the starter.
Before I got the AAW kit I bought a Mopar starter relay, but now it's no longer in the loop so to speak.

Do I need a separate starter relay?

If so, any suggestions would be appreciated, type, wiring it up, whatever.

The AAW harness is universal but incorporates some GM stuff, like the highbeam switch and column plug, but no mention of a GM starter.

 

[dangina]

I used a the standard ford relay for mine, I would say yes you should add one in.

 

[Darter6]

Tho the factory starter relay is just fine.dangina shows something many builders do.
A friend of mine puts these on all the autos he works on.

 

[gkent]

The GM starter in the schematic has three terminals. The Mopar starters only have two. Yes, you need a relay.

The age-old problem with Mopar starters is that the integral solenoid makes the high amp contact to engage the starter. Every time it makes contact it burns a bit of the contacts till eventually they're so burnt the starter no longer gets power. You can hear the click-click of the solenoid but there's no juice to the coils.

The solution would be to jumper those internal contacts and use an external solenoid like the Ford unit - that could be easily and quickly swapped if and when it fails. Although the mini starters are more easily swapped than the old ones, a new starter is still a lot more $$ than a solenoid.

And for what its worth, that relay in DANGINA's post is actually a solenoid - probably a relay/solenoid combo but definitely a solenoid.

 

[snakeoil24]

Allowing me to add look at mad electric schematic consider a cole hersey relay which allows you to kill power to positive lead after engine starts

 

[matthon]

Is it ok to mount the relay/solenoid on the inside of the firewall?

 

[matthon]

I used a the standard ford relay for mine

Why does the ignition Run go to the coil and then to the I stud on the relay?

 

[RemCharger]

The I stud energizes the coil in start position.
This is ford wiring, that's why it's alien.

 

[snakeoil24]

Is it ok to mount the relay/solenoid on the inside of the firewall?

Yes if battery is under hood or if if you mount batteries in trunk use cole hersey relay mounted in trunk.

 

[gkent]

Is it ok to mount the relay/solenoid on the inside of the firewall?

**** no !! Why would you want that much unfused, unswitched live current in the passenger compartment ?!?!?

 

[matthon]

Ok, so I can use the Mopar solenoid I have, power from battery to BAT, SOL to starter, SOL from ignition to I, and the G is for the neutral safety, iirc.

 

[matthon]

Why would you want that much unfused, unswitched live current in the passenger compartment ?

I don't, why I asked, just wondering if it was an option, for anti-theft I guess.

 

[gkent]

Ok, so I can use the Mopar solenoid I have, power from battery to BAT, SOL to starter, SOL from ignition to I, and the G is for the neutral safety, iirc.

This is not a solenoid, this is a relay !!

 

[Geoff 2]

The problem with the Ferd sol in post #2 is:
- there is absolutely no need for it. More wires, more connections to fail
- but worse, you are adding resistance [ via the contacts ] to a cct that draws hundreds of amps & needs all the current it can get....
- that sol was used on a particular Ford starter, the Folo-Thru, which did NOT have a sol mounted on the starter. Hence the remote starter.

 

[gkent]

The problem with the Ferd sol in post #2 is:
- there is absolutely no need for it. More wires, more connections to fail
- but worse, you are adding resistance [ via the contacts ] to a cct that draws hundreds of amps & needs all the current it can get....
- that sol was used on a particular Ford starter, the Folo-Thru, which did NOT have a sol mounted on the starter. Hence the remote starter.

Exactly ! Unless you can bypass the solenois in the Mopar starter, using an external solenoid is pointless.

 

[RJRENTON]

Exactly ! Unless you can bypass the solenois in the Mopar starter, using an external solenoid is pointless.

Since the solenoid on the Mopar starter also provides the engagement or shifting of the starter pinion to the fly wheel ring gear, it is necessary to operate plus it also has a secondary coil winding that acts as the holding circuit (magnetically) to keep the pinion engaged until the engine starts. The small red wire on the solenoid is the innitializing winding to pull in the solenoid armature to begin the START sequence.
BOB RENTON

 

[Black_Sheep]

It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure the neutral safety switch is the ground for the starter relay. Some creative wiring would be needed to retain that feature.

 

[matthon]

I just grounded G since I don't have a neutral safety.

Some of the Mopar relays come with a G tab, some come with no tab but the post is soldered/grounded to the relay case, aka body of the car.
My 67 4 speed car calls for this grounded relay, and I actually soldered a wire to it and screwed the other end to the ground hub I have next to the battery to ensure a good ground.

 

[kltighe]

I just purchased a Mini-Starter for my 318 Mopar on EBay. I decided to bench test it before installing. It spins up nice and quietly but it does not stop when power is removed from the solenoid. This does not seem right to me . Bob Renton’s post above gives me hope he might help me understand why the stater keeps running when it seems like it should not. Thanks!

 

[kltighe]

I’m thinking I may have to install an additional external Ford type solenoid to stop the starter after the engine starts.