Door skin sound deadener and panel bonding vs plug welding

[mopar4don]

I am getting ready to put door skins on and was wondering if I should (after epoxy priming the inside) apply some type of a sound deadener like lizard skin to the inside of the skins.

Also when I go to bend the outer lip over should I plug weld it like the factory or would it be better to use a panel bond?
It was recommended to me to use 3M 8115 panel bond and weld the corners. Apparently the panel bond will give a corrosion resistant seal also.

Thanks
Don

 

[69 GTX]

Yes to lizard skin!

 

[Bill Monk]

dont know anything about the panel bond, but the doors are already apart so I would use a sound deadener.

 

[aeon280]

I used Spray Dead on the full interior and noticed a considerable difference in the sound when closing the doors. I have since added a dynamat material on top of that and the doors have a nice heavy clunk when they are shut.

 

[eldubb440]

you're gonna owe me big...... listen up

when you cut off the skin, the door frame will lose its rigidity........ it will twist and flex

if you glue (or weld) the skin, it will no longer flex and twist, and most likely will not fit the car because one corner will be sticking out where you don't want it.......... if the lower rear corner sticks out, the back edge of the door will also be low to the quarter, the opposite also applies

I wrap the skin onto the frame, but do not weld anything until I hang the door on the car and "twist" it into its proper shape, then I put 2 tacks on it to hold its shape

you can then put a few more welds around the perimeter to permanently secure it, either on or off the car

gluing or welding before fitting will create a nightmare scenario, 2 tacks will hold it from moving, and there is no way to glue it once the skin is on......if you choose to panel bond them. use a very slow hardening kit, and don't put it where you can put a couple of welds

I once had a helper glue on a pair of skins without me knowing....it was a disaster

oh, and yes on the sound deadner

 

[mopar4don]

you're gonna owe me big...... listen up

when you cut off the skin, the door frame will lose its rigidity........ it will twist and flex

if you glue (or weld) the skin, it will no longer flex and twist, and most likely will not fit the car because one corner will be sticking out where you don't want it.......... if the lower rear corner sticks out, the back edge of the door will also be low to the quarter, the opposite also applies

I wrap the skin onto the frame, but do not weld anything until I hang the door on the car and "twist" it into its proper shape, then I put 2 tacks on it to hold its shape

you can then put a few more welds around the perimeter to permanently secure it, either on or off the car

gluing or welding before fitting will create a nightmare scenario, 2 tacks will hold it from moving, and there is no way to glue it once the skin is on......if you choose to panel bond them. use a very slow hardening kit, and don't put it where you can put a couple of welds

I once had a helper glue on a pair of skins without me knowing....it was a disaster

oh, and yes on the sound deadner

eldubb440 YES I OWE YOU!
Thanks for explaining it to a rookie. You make perfect sense!
Another question I had was once I weld the skin on, should I put the glass in when fitting to the mating panels? (In my case the quarters, rockers, cowl panel and fenders have all been replaced.)

 

[eldubb440]

Don, if you get the sheet metal panels fitting they way they need to, The glass should not pose a problem............ that being said, the more things you mock up now; the less surprises in the end.

I like to start with the doors on these builds, or at least a set that have not been disturbed........ getting them parallel to the rocker, even with the top of the quarter, ect......

 

[texas69bee]

you're gonna owe me big...... listen up

when you cut off the skin, the door frame will lose its rigidity........ it will twist and flex

if you glue (or weld) the skin, it will no longer flex and twist, and most likely will not fit the car because one corner will be sticking out where you don't want it.......... if the lower rear corner sticks out, the back edge of the door will also be low to the quarter, the opposite also applies

I wrap the skin onto the frame, but do not weld anything until I hang the door on the car and "twist" it into its proper shape, then I put 2 tacks on it to hold its shape

you can then put a few more welds around the perimeter to permanently secure it, either on or off the car

gluing or welding before fitting will create a nightmare scenario, 2 tacks will hold it from moving, and there is no way to glue it once the skin is on......if you choose to panel bond them. use a very slow hardening kit, and don't put it where you can put a couple of welds

I once had a helper glue on a pair of skins without me knowing....it was a disaster

oh, and yes on the sound deadner

Good explanation!!!

 

[snakeoil24]

eldub you really explain this very well. I also learned alot from your remarks.

 

[eldubb440]

how do you think I learned? lol, it only takes once

it's not that critical with later model stuff...... doors are smaller, stiffer, and remain somewhat assembled........ so unless someone is experienced with older stuff, it may not occur to them

but there's not much to these old Mopar Doors, and they are big; once you get the skin off, they are pretty wobbly

once the skin is on, and the door is hanging; you can watch just how much the skin moves on the frame while twisting; it's more than you might think

it's also surprising how rigid they become with just 2 tack welds.......

I like the panel bond...... as stated, it has good anti corrosive properties.....but remember; you need enough time to install a skin, wrap the edges, hang the door, and get a few welds on it. If it hardens too soon, you have a problem.

 

[Fm3 Dart]

how do you think I learned? lol, it only takes once

it's not that critical with later model stuff...... doors are smaller, stiffer, and remain somewhat assembled........ so unless someone is experienced with older stuff, it may not occur to them

but there's not much to these old Mopar Doors, and they are big; once you get the skin off, they are pretty wobbly

once the skin is on, and the door is hanging; you can watch just how much the skin moves on the frame while twisting; it's more than you might think

it's also surprising how rigid they become with just 2 tack welds.......

I like the panel bond...... as stated, it has good anti corrosive properties.....but remember; you need enough time to install a skin, wrap the edges, hang the door, and get a few welds on it. If it hardens too soon, you have a problem.

I can vouch for this. Having been body man for 32 years, I have done many door skins. About the only Mopars that you could glue a skin on without much worry is a 70-74 Challenger or Cuda because they have that mongo girder beam inside and even with skin off, they are rigid. BUT! I still wouldn't recommend glueing the skin on because of the potential for misalignment. Do what ELdubb440 recommends, and don't weld the hem flange until the door is back on the car and perfectly aligned. Yes glue would seal it up nice, but then again, are you driving the car through 15 winters? Probably not.

 

[mopar4don]

I am wondering if this product would be something good to use to seal the door skin edges.
Surebond Everflex Bondaprene SB-1800
It says that it is spot-weldable and non flammable, weather and water resistant
http://www.surebond.com/SB-1800/

 

[eldubb440]

I am wondering if this product would be something good to use to seal the door skin edges.
Surebond Everflex Bondaprene SB-1800
It says that it is spot-weldable and non flammable, weather and water resistant
http://www.surebond.com/SB-1800/

I'm open minded, but I do see a couple off negatives......... looks to not be paintable, and it dries kinda fast; But that doesn't make it all bad.

APPLICATION:
Interface and surfaces must be clean, dry and free of dust, dirt, oil, frost, moisture and water-proofing and release agents. All painting should be done before application. Cut cartridge nozzle for 3/8” hole and puncture inner seal, apply bead size as desired. Always apply uniform bead and tool immediately after application to ensure full contact with both sides of the joint area. Squeeze out should not occur on most overlap seals if applied properly. Sealant starts to skin over in five to ten minutes and dries to the touch within an hour.

 

[mopar4don]

Ok so how is the edges of the door normally done?
After the lip is bent over apply seam sealer?

 

[Pistol Pete]

I would flood the seams with epoxy (via acid brush), a quick wipe for the excess and call it a day.

You could always hit the inside with cavity wax as well if you're really worried about it.