Engine Removal

[Andrew]

When removing an engine from a 4 speed car, can anyone advise if it's better to remove the bellhousing from the engine or the transmission. The book I'm using says remove the bellhousing from the transmission, but the top bolts look impossible to reach.

 

[WileE]

When removing an engine from a 4 speed car, can anyone advise if it's better to remove the bellhousing from the engine or the transmission. The book I'm using says remove the bellhousing from the transmission, but the top bolts look impossible to reach.

How do you remove the bellhousing ? You pull the trans OFF the bellhousing, the top bolts are not difficult. Then pull the engine with the bellhousing on it.

 

[696pack]

If you have the equipment to get the car high enough the really easy way to remove the engine is to drop the engine/trans/ and front suspension all togather by removing the rear trans mount and K frame. It all drops down togather and then goes back up to re-install. You need to build a dolly with wheels to set it on and wheel it out from under the car. You can remove/re-install it with exhaust manifolds or headers on the engine. There are no chances of dinging fenders, shock towers, wrestling it in the engine bay down on top of the radiator, etc. this is the way the factory intalled them when new.

 

[Propwash]

but the top bolts look impossible to reach.

Not impossible to reach Andrew, but never the less a pain in the rear..Grab a good box end wrench and go to town.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I have pulled many engines with the trans attached right out the top, but as mentioned you can certainly get the upper bell housing bolts out with a box wrench.

I have never done the engine R&R through the bottom but will attempt it soon. This does look like the method that will require the least amount of cussing.

 

[696pack]

Yeah, i have done them both ways too. If you pull the engine and trans togather out the top you have to position the chains far forward so that it comes out with the front of the engine high and the trans low. Then push the car back as the engine trans comes out and then get on the back of the trans and level it out and push the car further back to clear all in order to then drop everything on the floor.

The other way is much easier but I had a 4 post lift and a cherry picker to hold the engine up when the K member came loose. Then raised the lift and dropped the engine on the dolly. After it is on the dolly I took the cherry picker off, raised the lift higher and just rolled it out.

 

[Andrew]

I cant access the top driver side bolt that holds the tranny to the bellhousing. So as I see it I can either pull the tranny with the motor, if so do I leave the tail shaft in the car or remove it with the tranny? Or remove the bellhousing from the block and leave tranny in the car with the bellhousing, not sure if there is a problem with that.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Andrew,you might have remove the transmission crossmember and lower it down with a floor jack to get the clearence needed.

 

[Andrew]

Thanks all, once I removed the cross member, I could reach the top tranny bolts no problem. Man, there's no substitute for experience

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Gotta love FBBO!!:munky2:

 

[BrianM]

I have pulled a 440 with a 727 attached with no problems through the bonnet area using the bolts at the end of the heads. Just a scary angle when you are getting the tail shaft passed the firewall.

Has anyone pulled a 440 with a 833 4 speed attached with a cast iron bell housing? Is it too heavy to lift from the screws at the end of the heads? I'm guessing about 42ksi max shear on the bolts.

Thanks

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Wow, old thread.

42ksi? What values and assumptions are you using?

Quick and dirty, literally on back of envelope - Assuming no bolt bending, equal load distribution, 3/8" bolts, 4 pick up pts, no dynamic effects, and 1000# I get ~2300 psi. This is not a conservative approach, but this stress is practically nothing on a good fastener...

 

[BrianM]

I did the calculation again and am getting 17Ksi worst case

Engine, 11 inch cast iron bell hosing, flywheel, clutch, and transmission 1100lb
when the tail is pointed down the screw in the front head will have most of the weight.
With a load of 1100 lbs and a minor diameter of 3/8 screw at 0.2970 gives 16600psi shear. The yield strength of the grade 5 fastener is 92Ksi, so the max recommended shear would be half of the yield at 42500psi. So I should be OK.

Gonna take the intake off, lift from 4 intake holes, and use a load leveler to get the stress down to 8300psi. Should replace the gasket anyway.

I wouldn't recommend the K frame drop method for any vehicle that drove thru the blizzard of 78 or any years of service where there is salt on the roads. You could wreck a frame rail if the weld nut and plate spin free of the frame when unscrewing the attaching bolts.
View attachment 171152

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

First, yes, it should be fine.

As far as calc goes, not how I would do it. Note that if you pull from intake holes the bolts are no longer in shear - depending on arrangement, stress could go up significantly if a moment is introduced...if bolt is not tightened down it would be on the shank, if tightened, due to the load lvler attachment bracket/angles, the head of bolt should see prying/heel-toe. This is off the top of my head...haven't done a FBD to verify.

Profession?