Freaking pulley alignment driving me nuts!!

[mferraro76]

What am i doing wrong? I had the whole thing together and the pulleys won't line up. The water pump pulley is about 1/4 inch too far in and doesn't line up with the inner crank pulley.

My specs: small block, 318. I am 100% sure the harmonic balancer is snug up against the crank gear. I thought i might have the wrong crank gear but it seems to match what advance auto had in stock for the 318.

I thought i might have the wrong water pump, but it appears to be the right one.

I bought a new timing cover, but it measures the same as my old one.

Basically i have torn the whole front of the engine apart trying to figure this out. Can someone either help me with this or give me some measurements to check - like the thickness of the lower timing gear, length of the water pump, length of the harmonic balancer, etc? i can't imagine that i should have to shim the WP pulley a 1/4" out?

 

[WP29440SE]

some pics of the pulleys you are using would help. all 318s are internally balanced and all use the same thin balancer.

 

[mferraro76]

here are the pictures of the pulleys and balancer:

the balancer was definately fully seated. after taking it off, i measured the snout of the crank from the crank gear out and it left an imprint inside the balancer the same depth.

These are the same pulleys, but the old brackets were shimmed with pipe, nuts, an assortment of washers - it was ugly.

 

[moparmarks]

Thats a SB w/p pulley and the balancer looks right. Might have a BB crank pulley. Does it line up with the P/S pump?

 

[mferraro76]

Thats a SB w/p pulley and the balancer looks right. Might have a BB crank pulley. Does it line up with the P/S pump?

i had two vendors at mopar carlisle confirm it is the SB crank pulley. i even bought another small block pulley just in case and it is identical.

both of the crank pulleys have the number 36143-78 stamped on the side, the WP pulley has 2958 36 D stamped on it. does that say anything?

 

[RustyRatRod]

This is exactly one of the reasons why I am going serpentine.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

I would check again the sizes of your pulleys ....From the crank to the water pump with a straight edge.... Getting the proper measurement..Careful if you use shims to alter alignment..... Pic's 2&3 are crank & water pump pulley shims...



Check out this web site ...they have pic's & sizes of the pulleys.....check out their pulley specification fit section....

http://bouchillonperformance.com/BPEpulleys.asp

 

[Cranky]

If you can measure it and tell me what you have vs what you need, I can check to see what I have laying around.....this is how I measure and try to eyeball to the center of the groove.

 

[Cranky]

I would check again the sizes of your pulleys ....From the crank to the water pump with a straight edge.... Getting the proper measurement..Careful if you use shims to alter alignment..... Pic's 2&3 are crank & water pump pulley shims...



Check out this web site ...they have pic's & sizes of the pulleys.....check out their pulley specification fit section....

http://bouchillonperformance.com/BPEpulleys.asp

Bouchillonperformance is a good place to go to but they don't seem to have all of the combinations that the factory came out with. I also couldn't find a part number chart from them for small blocks....

 

[WP29440SE]

the top pulley you are using i am using on my 360. here is the pulley im using on my 318. it is a tid bit shallower= 2 3/4 deep. i have the same exact bottom pulley and balancer you have

 

[67 coronet]

if you had a conglomeration of spacers and such,it may not be your pulleys.someone may have swapped brackets from newer years.see if someone can supply a pic of brackets for a small block(all mine are big block)

 

[Cranky]

if you had a conglomeration of spacers and such,it may not be your pulleys.someone may have swapped brackets from newer years.see if someone can supply a pic of brackets for a small block(all mine are big block)

His WP pulley isn't matching up with his crank pulley.....brackets won't affect that.....

 

[ws27]

I don't have a 318 available, but maybe someone can give him definitive measurements on each pully to the block, that way you can figure out which one is the problem and then focus on that pulley only.

 

[67 coronet]

His WP pulley isn't matching up with his crank pulley.....brackets won't affect that.....

thanx cranky,guess i will need to read more closely next time.are crank pulleys different from ac and non ac in those years?same with water pump pulley,could be mixed.

 

[WP29440SE]

the top pulley you are using i am using on my 360. here is the pulley im using on my 318. it is a tid bit shallower= 2 3/4 deep. i have the same exact bottom pulley and balancer you have

I don't have a 318 available, but maybe someone can give him definitive measurements on each pully to the block, that way you can figure out which one is the problem and then focus on that pulley only.

the 318 pulley i have in my pic above is exactly 2 3/4" deep

the pulley i have on my 360 which the OP is using is 3 " deep

you will need to either shim it out 1/4" or get the right pulley

 

[mferraro76]

the 318 pulley i have in my pic above is exactly 2 3/4" deep

the pulley i have on my 360 which the OP is using is 3 " deep

you will need to either shim it out 1/4" or get the right pulley

so the 318 and 360 WP pulleys are different?
No AC on the car
It is totally apart - so i can't get the straight edge. i thought i might have the wrong lower timing gear (too thick) causing the balancer to be out too far, i can't remember who made it but i bought a "cheap" timing kit a while back and honestly thought they might have mixed up the gear.

i bought all new brackets from cvf racing, i'm not using any of the old brackets.

 

[moparshaker]

pulley

i have this pulley from a parts car its a 2 1/4" deep , i can send to you and if it works just send your old one to me. if this will help. thanks tim

 

[WP29440SE]

i have this pulley from a parts car its a 2 1/4" deep , i can send to you and if it works just send your old one to me. if this will help. thanks tim

it looks like an AC top pulley or BB pulley

 

[WP29440SE]

so the 318 and 360 WP pulleys are different?
No AC on the car
It is totally apart - so i can't get the straight edge. i thought i might have the wrong lower timing gear (too thick) causing the balancer to be out too far, i can't remember who made it but i bought a "cheap" timing kit a while back and honestly thought they might have mixed up the gear.

i bought all new brackets from cvf racing, i'm not using any of the old brackets.

when i get my pulley sets, i always get them in pairs. but if you take the crank bolt out and the pulley off, you will be able to see if the balancer is flush with crank snout or if it sticking out. unless you are beating the balancer on from the outside , it would be impossible to put it on past the crank snout. always use the bolt to pull it on to the crank. im am sure with the pulley im using, that your grooves will line up. the two bottom pulleys on each of my small blocks are exactly the same. the 360 is externally balanced and uses a different balancer than the 318. my 360 uses the 3" deep top pulley and the 318 uses the 2 3/4 top pulley. as far as i know, this is all across the board.

 

[mferraro76]

that is great info, i am trying to figure out where i would have gotten the 360 WP pulley since i never had a 360. I had a couple different 318s and the original was an older 273 - but i left those pulleys on that engine (different WP for 1968).

I know there are different pulleys for the pre-70 small blocks, but i don't think that is the problem.

My measurements show that a pulley 1/4 shallower would work - so i need to find a pulley just like yours.

As far as the balancer, it was never flush with the end of the crank. I used the bolt to push it on, and snug it up to the lower timing gear. I think it only went on about 1 1/2 inches, with the end of the crank recessed about another inch or so inside the balancer. i had maybe 1/8th to 3/16ths of an inch between the balancer and the timing marks on the timing chain cover.