Given my stock 18-spline setup, what clutch options do I actually have?

[moparedtn]

I'll preface by saying, I'm no expert on this stuff.
All I know about Mopar clutches entails 18 vs. 23 spline and 10.5" vs. 11" OD...that's the extent of my knowledge.
I grew up driving anything with a clutch (thanks Pop, God rest you!) and I've never actually worn a clutch out in
my life (including a 250k 5.0 Mustang and my 20 year old diesel compact tractor now).
I still remember fondly a certain '68 Super Bee I had with a transplant 440 that had a NAPA "rebuilt" factory style
clutch in it, that I beat hell out of and never so much as glazed the flywheel on it.

What I'm saying is - I get along good with clutches. Love 'em.

I do know that the factory style B&B 3-finger style clutch has pretty much gone the way of the dodo, much to my
disappointment - I've always actually liked the factory clutches on these cars and have little need for any
"high performance" ones, honestly.
I don't feel the need to walk around with the "3000lb clutch left knee" limp, bragging rights aside.

Don't care much for diaphragm style ones, either - they feel more like on-off switches to me, not to mention the
wonky pedal height and no over-center spring deal are real turn-offs to me.

So - having come up empty on finding "just" a factory-style 3-finger anywhere (and no, RAM doesn't count)...
perhaps I need to broaden my horizons some here??

First, what I have to work with...
Fred has a 440 with a factory heavy as hell 11" flywheel, as provided by Brewers a few years ago:

The bellhousing is a factory cast iron hoarker as well:

2892262 part number....

A rebuilt 18-spline A833 ('68 version) and all factory linkages and such (rebuilt with springs and bushings
and such from parts also from Brewers), topped off with a nice Hurst Competition Plus shifter that's dead nuts on.
I am not interested in changing these "hard points" (trans, flywheel, bellhousing) in the least - I know from some
decades owning similar that they're all serious overkill for the job at hand and they just plain work.

So, given scarcity of the original type clutch in 11" and my distaste for diaphragm types, what other options (if any)
do I actually have?
(The current RAM "purple" one gotta go, hate the damn thing....whoever designed that thing actually hates shifting
methinks).
Thanks in advance!

 

[Dragon Slayer]

What is the issue you have with RAM B&B style? Your flywheel with the larger bolt hole pattern dicdates the standard 11" clutch that has the housing with larger bolt pattern. So 10.5 or 11" scallop are out.

You can try to find a NOS clutch, have an original rebuilt. I think there is a clutch rebuilder in TN, but I could be wrong.

Usually the issue is the pressure plate warping. Pretty obvious with a flat edge if it did.

 

[69hemibeep]

In my experience the only on off type pressure plate Ive drove is a Center Force the other diaphrams are fine.

 

[hunt2elk]

I'm running McLeod dual disc setups on both my 18 spline cars. They are a diaphram, but don't feel like it. They about doubled in price over the last 3 years however - kind of in crazy money territory now. Whatever you do, don't let anybody talk you into a Centerforce dual friction 18 spline. They are so abrupt. I hated it and my wife couldn't even drive the car. I do love the Centerforce 23 dual friction though.
If I were you and definitely wanted a Borg & Beck style, I would call both Brewers and Jamie Passon for their recommendations.

 

[91r/t]

I'm running McLeod dual disc setups on both my 18 spline cars. They are a diaphram, but don't feel like it. They about doubled in price over the last 3 years however - kind of in crazy money territory now. Whatever you do, don't let anybody talk you into a Centerforce dual friction 18 spline. They are so abrupt. I hated it and my wife couldn't even drive the car. I do love the Centerforce 23 dual friction though.
If I were you and definitely wanted a Borg & Beck style, I would call both Brewers and Jamie Passon for their recommendations.

That must be my problem then.....I have a 23 spline in my Charger and my Power Wagon and love them but man is my 18 spline in my Roadrunner a bitch to push. I thought it was just an older design or something because its so hard to shove and it comes on instantly vs my other two 23 spline units. Like night and day. I borderline hate my 18 spline unit vs the other two. All Center Force dual friction clutches same design basically.

 

[Outsider]

I get it about not liking a Chevy style diaphragm pressure plate, it just doesn't feel like an original Mopar setup, and I believe the stock Mopar ones worked just fine on the street. How about Hays or Zoom's Borg & Becks, it looks like they still make them? I've run theirs's in the past, but not recently.

When I was actively racing my stick car McLeod built me custom Borg & Beck's with Long levers. They were very helpful in my race effort.

 

[R/T Boy 67]

Brewers has a Ram clutch that fits the bill.

 

[hunt2elk]

That must be my problem then.....I have a 23 spline in my Charger and my Power Wagon and love them but man is my 18 spline in my Roadrunner a bitch to push. I thought it was just an older design or something because its so hard to shove and it comes on instantly vs my other two 23 spline units. Like night and day. I borderline hate my 18 spline unit vs the other two. All Center Force dual friction clutches same design basically.

I really don't know what the difference is between Centerforce 18 and 23 units. I even pulled my 18 out and sent it back to them thinking something was terribly wrong. They said it checked out perfectly within spec. Told me they would adjust it some to make it better. It was no better after I reinstalled it. Sold the car so I didn't have to deal with it anymore. I would have pulled it and thrown it directly into the scrap metal pile if I had kept the car. That's how much I hated it. But, like I stated above, I just love their 23 spline model.

 

[R413]

I like the old time 3 finger Clutches.

I take the old disc to the truck friction relining shop and have it refined. Works great.

All these online forums has got folks on to the center force. I don’t like the way they feel and operate so I won’t use them.

 

[91r/t]

I really don't know what the difference is between Centerforce 18 and 23 units. I even pulled my 18 out and sent it back to them thinking something was terribly wrong. They said it checked out perfectly within spec. Told me they would adjust it some to make it better. It was no better after I reinstalled it. Sold the car so I didn't have to deal with it anymore. I would have pulled it and thrown it directly into the scrap metal pile if I had kept the car. That's how much I hated it. But, like I stated above, I just love their 23 spline model.

Yup same here. Its like using 2 toes to push it with the 23 spline and then 2 feet with the 18 spline. Huge difference.

 

[moparedtn]

What is the issue you have with RAM B&B style? Your flywheel with the larger bolt hole pattern dicdates the standard 11" clutch that has the housing with larger bolt pattern. So 10.5 or 11" scallop are out.

You can try to find a NOS clutch, have an original rebuilt. I think there is a clutch rebuilder in TN, but I could be wrong.

Usually the issue is the pressure plate warping. Pretty obvious with a flat edge if it did.

Rather than go into subjective opinion stuff over the RAM, suffice to say I bought one - it's in the car now - but not again
and leave it at that.
That's the sort of information I'm after re: the bolt diameter on the flywheel, thanks. I see references to things like
"10.95" discs" and such and have no idea what that is, for example.

Yep, the option to get an original relined would be there - if I had an original, that is.
If NOS is even affordable, I've never seen one even available, either.

Ok then, let me ask this:
If I were to opt for an aftermarket flywheel with the different bolt patterns, would the car be fine with say the 10.5"
clutch that would open the door to? What other discs are available on the 18-spline at smaller diameters?

 

[moparedtn]

In my experience the only on off type pressure plate Ive drove is a Center Force the other diaphrams are fine.

Thanks for that the CenterForce DualFriction is the exact clutch that turned me off to diaphragm types
for exactly that reason - not to mention, the pedal never being the "right" height with it.

I'm running McLeod dual disc setups on both my 18 spline cars. They are a diaphram, but don't feel like it. They about doubled in price over the last 3 years however - kind of in crazy money territory now. Whatever you do, don't let anybody talk you into a Centerforce dual friction 18 spline. They are so abrupt. I hated it and my wife couldn't even drive the car. I do love the Centerforce 23 dual friction though.
If I were you and definitely wanted a Borg & Beck style, I would call both Brewers and Jamie Passon for their recommendations.

Those dual discs are pricy to the likes of me, but thanks for the recommendation on them....
and yes, Fred has had that exact 18-spline DualFriction in him before and yes, "on-off" about describes it.
Dan has nothing B&B except the RAM. Jamie, I don't do business with anymore.
Thanks!

I get it about not liking a Chevy style diaphragm pressure plate, it just doesn't feel like an original Mopar setup, and I believe the stock Mopar ones worked just fine on the street. How about Hays or Zoom's Borg & Becks, it looks like they still make them? I've run theirs's in the past, but not recently.

When I was actively racing my stick car McLeod built me custom Borg & Beck's with Long levers. They were very helpful in my race effort.

Nothing to do with Chevy; I just don't like any diaphragm type I've ever felt on a 440, but I haven't had them all...
On the other hand, even a parts store rebuilt B&B stock one always worked for me...when they were still around,
anyways.
Yes, Hays still has one apparently. Zoom just got out of them and McLeod stopped making them about a year ago
from what I can tell. I haven't had a Hays in a long time; last one was meaner than a snake, gave me Schwartzenegger
leg all the time but bit like hell. Thanks!

 

[moparedtn]

Brewers has a Ram clutch that fits the bill.

Nope - that's where the RAM I have came from, recall. Love Brewer's to death, but they're no help on this
question (been there asked that).

I really don't know what the difference is between Centerforce 18 and 23 units. I even pulled my 18 out and sent it back to them thinking something was terribly wrong. They said it checked out perfectly within spec. Told me they would adjust it some to make it better. It was no better after I reinstalled it. Sold the car so I didn't have to deal with it anymore. I would have pulled it and thrown it directly into the scrap metal pile if I had kept the car. That's how much I hated it. But, like I stated above, I just love their 23 spline model.

Yeah, hated mine so much I yanked it out with less than 500 miles on it and gave it to a guy lock, stock and barrel.
Dan offered to exchange it on warranty; I couldn't in good faith because I didn't know something was actually "wrong".
Enter the current RAM one....oy.

Yup same here. Its like using 2 toes to push it with the 23 spline and then 2 feet with the 18 spline. Huge difference.

AMEN!

 

[R/T Boy 67]

The flywheel you have now has 143 teeth and takes the 11" clutch. The 10.5 and 10.95 are interchangeable with each other but will not fit your flywheel. If you find a clutch you like in the 10.5/.95 size then you need a 143 tooth flywheel with both bolt patterns ( some aftermarket) or a 130 tooth flywheel and a different bell housing that fits the 130 tooth.

 

[Dragon Slayer]

There are after market flywheels with both bolts patterns. As stated 143 tooth to match your bell house. If you get the dual pattern you can than go with the smaller diameter bolt pattern clutches like the 11" scalloped (10.95 disc), or 10.5". All about how it is constructed with springs/rollers etc... For example, the hemi superstock did use a 10.5" clutch. Just had heavier springs, thicker housing, and rollers with impact plates to handle the HD use.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

I purchased Bogs and Warner 3 finger 11” Clutch from Jamie Passions in Pennsylvania. He is also rebuilding my 18 spline transmission ,picking it up on Saturday. I’m also giving him my old Clutch and pressure plate to rebuild to have for a spare…

 

[davek]

Ed ,my friend owns the clutch shop and rebuilds them. He has done mine for the last 30 years. Clutch Brake Friction Specialists - Rochester Clutch & Brake - Rochester Clutch + Brake Co

 

[Cojohnso1]

In my experience the only on off type pressure plate Ive drove is a Center Force the other diaphrams are fine.

I have a Centerforce with the 18 spline trans. And yes, once center spring removed it has the funky pedal. You can add an outer spring. But that does add some harder pedal.

I like the performance. But not crazy about the pedal. It also messes with my neutral safety switch. I'm sure there is a way to compensate. But I haven't as yet.

 

[moparedtn]

View attachment 1415014View attachment 1415015


I purchased Bogs and Warner 3 finger 11” Clutch from Jamie Passions in Pennsylvania. He is also rebuilding my 18 spline transmission ,picking it up on Saturday. I’m also giving him my old Clutch and pressure plate to rebuild to have for a spare…

What brand is that, Pops?

 

[moparedtn]

Ed ,my friend owns the clutch shop and rebuilds them. He has done mine for the last 30 years. Clutch Brake Friction Specialists - Rochester Clutch & Brake - Rochester Clutch + Brake Co

I wonder if they'd have cores to use in my case? Thanks Dave!