Help on solid lifter cam selection..

[Sweet5ltr]

Need help deciding what is the best cam for my application.

440 (451ci) 11:1cr.
Victor 440 single plane
Proform/Holley 750 (flows 820+)
Performer RPM cylinder heads (84cc)
833 four speed.
4.10 gear, 30" tire.

Currently am running a Comp XE285HL but feel it is too much for the stock stamped rocker arms. Switching to an adjustable valve train so I might as well switch to a solid cam.

Was looking at the MP .557. How does this compare to other solid lifter cams in the .550 lift range or hydraulic flat tappet camshafts? Don't want to switch out stock valve springs, and idle quality or vac. for power brakes, etc. isn't a concern.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I'd run the MP .528" / 284 with 1.5:1 adjustable rockers. Not sure what you mean by "Don't want to switch out stock valve springs" but this cam requires dual springs. No matter what make sure you have the correct pressure and installed height.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I'd run the MP .528" / 284 with 1.5:1 adjustable rockers. Not sure what you mean by "Don't want to switch out stock valve springs" but this cam requires dual springs. No matter what make sure you have the correct pressure and installed height.

Not looking to switch out the brand new Edelbrock valve springs. I believe they are around 120# seated, 320# open. I don't believe I would gain anything by running the .528 MP (would probably LOSE performance over my current camshaft) and switching over to a 3 bolt timing chain (looking at single bolt applications close to the .557MP from hughes). That to me would be like running a .509 Hydraulic which I used with my cast iron heads. Looking for a more aggressive camshaft and don't care about vacuum at idle as I have no power accessories.

Thank you for your input Meep!

 

[RustyRatRod]

I don't mean this in a smartass way so keep that in mind. lol

If you're not willing to scrap the springs, you'll never acheive what those heads can do and you might as well not have wasted your money on them. They were really not made to be run out of the box. Although plenty of people do it. What'd they set you back? 1200-1500 bucks?

For another 1000, you COULD have an easy 600 plus HP. What "I" would do would be to get the heads off, find a reputable porter in your area and let him have at it. You built a stroker with aluminum heads, man. Not a stock 440. Take advantage of the money you spent. Unless you prep those heads like they were intended to be, you may as well sell them and put iron heads back on it, because they are not making you any difference in power whatsoever.

They have the capability to be ported further than iron, can run more cam lift than iron, yet, you use neither of those advantages. So......why did you buy aluminum heads? Remember my first sentence.....I'm just askin straight up questions. Don't read anything else into it. lol

 

[1stBxMopar]

Give Dave Hughes a call at HUGHES ENGINES, he'll help steer you in the right direction as far as cam selection for your application........

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I don't mean this in a smartass way so keep that in mind. lol

If you're not willing to scrap the springs, you'll never acheive what those heads can do and you might as well not have wasted your money on them. They were really not made to be run out of the box. Although plenty of people do it. What'd they set you back? 1200-1500 bucks?

For another 1000, you COULD have an easy 600 plus HP. What "I" would do would be to get the heads off, find a reputable porter in your area and let him have at it. You built a stroker with aluminum heads, man. Not a stock 440. Take advantage of the money you spent. Unless you prep those heads like they were intended to be, you may as well sell them and put iron heads back on it, because they are not making you any difference in power whatsoever.

They have the capability to be ported further than iron, can run more cam lift than iron, yet, you use neither of those advantages. So......why did you buy aluminum heads? Remember my first sentence.....I'm just askin straight up questions. Don't read anything else into it. lol

I know where you are coming from, the current cam I am running is .545/.545 lift and 285*/297* duration. I am actually checking out the .590 mechanical from Mopar. I have just noticed how these new fast ramp rate hydraulics roll over on top end or anything above 5,500RPM. Don't think the hydraulic lifters can handle the camshaft and spring load. I think I could make close to 600HP with the .590 if not 600HP. Talked to hughes, they didn't want me going over a .520 lift camshaft with a wide LSA and no duration. Why do I buy heads that flow 290+cfm at .600 lift and only run a .500 lift cam!? In that case, I would have stuck with the factory iron heads. I would indeed be leaving 50-75HP on the table! The new cam (went from MP 509 to the Comp) is honestly too tame for me with the 110LSA, but it sounds good and is great in traffic. But I like driving something that is over the top, if I want to have a easy' cruising car I just drive my Z06 Corvette. Thank you for your advice.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Look...you'll not find a bigger proponent for the old MP cams than I. BUT, even I gotta admit, they're dinosaurs. There are MUCH better grinds out there. You want similar to the MP but a LOT better? Look at the Purple Plus line from Comp. Want better still? Go with Lunati. They got Harold Brookshire, for God's sake. Remember Ultradyne? Harold is probably the best mind in camshafts in the world, BAR NONE. Them Hughes boys WISH they knew what Harold has forgot. Right now, I think Lunati is the best game in town. Just my personal opinion.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Here's the one I just picked out for my stock stroke 383.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1573&gid=283

It's a little gnarly for a stock stroke motor, but that's what I want. Nasatious. lol They have some super nice grinds. Thanks to Harold.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Harold also was responsible for General Kenetics grinds many years ago......and they were at one point some of the best cams you could get. I believe he was also influential with a lot of Crane's engineering....if only from his competition. They saw his success and started mirroring his grinds. You can see it clearly in the Crane master catalog. It's a running joke around here when we're cam huntin for something. We'll say "just put a Harold cam in it". Doesn't really matter the brand, as long as it came from a company and time period when Harold was involved, it's gonna be a goodun.

And it goes without sayin he's affected Com Cams by a landslide. Look when he went to Lunati....about when the Voodoo series came out. That's about the same time Comp added several new lines....all that Xtreme stuff. lol If I had to pick one man whose made an industry wide ripple in the camshaft industry, it's Harold Brookshire.

 

[Meep-Meep]

You're running a 440 that appears to be .060" over. Guessing stock crank and maybe stock rods with good bolts? Light weight forged pistons, and to get 11:1 CR with an 84 CC head you must have a dome of some sort. Domes tend to upset flame travel and require more advance and may have an effect on breathing. I'm just saying throwing more camshaft at it may not be the answer. In my opinion a 4.10 gear with a 30" tire and a 4 spd. - if you are looking for optimum acceleration in the quarter - is not deep enough, and having a cam that puts the torque peak up higher is not helping the current situation. Cams with a shorter lobe separation, like a 108 will make more peak torque, but you will need to compensate with compression (as you already have) and gear. Valve lift isn't the end all be all and you may play with LSA to get to your desired goal. Another thing to consider if the goal is 600 HP is the rest of the engine going to survive it? I know that if any stock bottom end engine will be a candidate for high output it will be the deep skirt BB MoPar of FE Ford, but what are the reliable limits? The 426 HEMI, 406 and 427 Fords come with cross bolt mains and why is that? Is it because those engines were expected to make 600 HP in race trim?

 

[Sweet5ltr]

You're running a 440 that appears to be .060" over. Guessing stock crank and maybe stock rods with good bolts? Light weight forged pistons, and to get 11:1 CR with an 84 CC head you must have a dome of some sort. Domes tend to upset flame travel and require more advance and may have an effect on breathing. I'm just saying throwing more camshaft at it may not be the answer. In my opinion a 4.10 gear with a 30" tire and a 4 spd. - if you are looking for optimum acceleration in the quarter - is not deep enough, and having a cam that puts the torque peak up higher is not helping the current situation. Cams with a shorter lobe separation, like a 108 will make more peak torque, but you will need to compensate with compression (as you already have) and gear. Valve lift isn't the end all be all and you may play with LSA to get to your desired goal. Another thing to consider if the goal is 600 HP is the rest of the engine going to survive it? I know that if any stock bottom end engine will be a candidate for high output it will be the deep skirt BB MoPar of FE Ford, but what are the reliable limits? The 426 HEMI, 406 and 427 Fords come with cross bolt mains and why is that? Is it because those engines were expected to make 600 HP in race trim?

I was running a 28" tire, and I agree I would rather be running a 4.30 gear even with that tire size. It's not a strip only car, and is only driven on the street but I prefer that build style. Steel crank, Forged steel rods, and hyper pistons you are correct. Looking at the Mopar Performance manual, even an 8.5:1 CR engine gained dramatic performance over the hydraulic .509 by going to the .590 solid lifter camshaft. By the time you set the lash, the cam is relatively small compared to some of the camshafts I would run in even a SBF or SBC other than the LSA being tighter. The only time you care about performance in my opinion, is when you are running all out anyways. I don't drive the car hard, but prefer when I do that it has ample amounts of power on tap. Having a 4-speed over a dedicated race 727 is an obvious sign that the car is built for personality, other than maximum performance and is already leaving a good amount of ET on the table.. Thank you for your input.

 

[RustyRatRod]

All that will be fun in front of a 4 speed. ;)

 

[Sweet5ltr]

All that will be fun in front of a 4 speed. ;)

very fun, as long as it holds together and doesnt grenade down the track! Already have a rebuild kit from brewers standing by.. Would rather bust a u~joint than the trans. Have dr diff 31 spline axles and a locker in the rear.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I don't think you'll break an 833. If it was an OD version, maybe....but the standard version will take a LOT of abuse.

 

[67 B-body]

Kofells Speed shop used to use the 590 MP camshaft in a stock stroke 440 and ported iron heads to get 600 hp on the dyno...
I used that cam with 1.6 rockers in my current engine (makes 630 lift). My heads are a bit more aggressive than yours (Victor), and Victor intake...
I have .140" domed Forged pistons, so I believe compression calculated out to something like 13:1 with .040" head gasket.
Like already mentioned,,, you should really think about durability if you've decided on building an engine that runs best at higher RPM.. I have a steel crank (standard stroke), Scatt H-Beam Rods (4340 I think), Main Bearing caps have studs and Stud girdle, Deep sump oil pan, 3/4 groove bearings, Hasting file fit racing rings, Balanced rotating assy.,
SFI rated harmonic balancer.
Then you have to start making things stronger behind that engine if you haven't already... I had an incident that lead me to start using an aftermarket JW bell-housing conversion on my automatic trans.. I'm getting a new driveshaft in a couple weeks when I return from Cali to handle things a bit easier...
Great luck with your choices!!!!!

 

[Sweet5ltr]

The short block is new with less than 1,000 street miles (balanced, blue printed, etc). I don't think it will have too much of an issue handling the power. I am using a Ram SFI billet steel flywheel and DFX Clutch rated to 650-700HP. Bell housing is stock, but don't think that is going to be an issue. Probably should go to an SFI approved balancer, but it is not just a strip car but is primarily a street bruiser. Their is nothing like the sound of a nasty solid lifter cammed' Mopar pulling up in the show, when surrounded by hydraulic roller cammed' Fords and Chevys :headbang:

Mopar recommends a pretty weak spring for this camshaft, but I have noticed some people using wild spring rates and wearing out the camshafts prematurely. The edelbrock spring rates for their valve springs on this car are 120# seated, and 320# open. I believe the comp spring setup that is recommended is only 328# open. Not looking to spin the engine to the moon, just enough to make good power by 6,000-6,500RPM. I can buy the cam and lifter kit for $188 shipped online so that is why I am leaning toward this setup, and also it has a very proven track record.

 

[67 B-body]

The idle of my engine realy isn't that wild....... It has a noticable idle, but not real lopey!
Maybe it's because everything else is capable of using that much cam? I'm sure compression is playing a large role in this too!
Anyhow, if it turns out anything like mine,,, don't be shocked if it doesn't have a lumpity lump sound at idle... Just a CRISP crackle and wirey sounding....
I'll get a sound clip of it tonight and post for you...

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Thank you that would be great. I figured with 104 degrees overlap, it would sound radical. Mopar muscle had a test where they ran the .590 with eheads and an M1 and made 575hp. They also said the stock springs on the RPMs were easily capable of supporting that camshaft and they were using 1.6 rocker arms.

 

[RustyRatRod]

The problem "I" have with the mopar cams is they advertise one set of specs, but they sometimes measure entirely differently, even when using the parameters Mopar Performance sets forth. Regardless, they are still some pretty good cams.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

The problem "I" have with the mopar cams is they advertise one set of specs, but they sometimes measure entirely differently, even when using the parameters Mopar Performance sets forth. Regardless, they are still some pretty good cams.

I have read the new advertised specs from Mopar that the duration at .050 is now 271 for the .590 solid cam. Pretty ridiculous to post information that was not correct for thirty years or so.