If I have a car that’s a survivor

[gdrill]

A survivor wasn’t crushed. ^^^^^

 

[gtx6970]

Best I remember to qualify as survivor it needs to be 90% original paint and interior. unmolested everywhere else. with exception to a small amount of safety / maint items

 

[440 PHIXX]

Here’s an interesting scenario… take two ‘69 Charger R/T’s with the 440, because a lot of the sheet metal has been reproduced. One is all original Chrysler assembled sheet metal from new, but has a different engine block that was made back then. The other is 75% Asian sheet metal from 2019, constructed in a shop recently, but has an engine block with a number the same as the VIN. Both restored, with fresh paint work. Which one brings the bigger $? We all know. And it doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

[68BabyBlue]

Here’s an interesting scenario… take two ‘69 Charger R/T’s with the 440, because a lot of the sheet metal has been reproduced. One is all original Chrysler assembled sheet metal from new, but has a different engine block that was made back then. The other is 75% Asian sheet metal from 2019, constructed in a shop recently, but has an engine block with a number the same as the VIN. Both restored, with fresh paint work. Which one brings the bigger $? We all know. And it doesn’t make any sense to me.

Here's another version of that - It actually happened to me in 2016. Two red numbers matching GTXs. The first one had extensive metal replacement, fresh paint. I wasn't thrilled at first, but after inspecting the car, and the quality of the body work, I bought it. Six months later, the unrestored '69 I'd owned in the 90s came on the market. All original sheet metal on that one, one faded repaint, priced nearly $20,000 lower. I think that one was the better deal, but the market didn't, it was a no sale a year later.

 

[Kern Dog]

This is all made up anyway.
The "survivor" description is broad in nature. Once money became an issue, the various dignitaries got together and came up with their own points to use to determine what is a genuine survivor by their own definition.
It is all opinion. It is subjective. What one man thinks is beautiful may be beautiful to him while I may think it is hideous. People collect AMC Pacers for Christ's sake.
Technically, all old cars survived if they still exist but their mechanical and physical conditions can vary greatly.
It isn't like Merriam-Webster where they are the authority on the English Language for authors. Few people rebuke their decisions.
There are no automotive authorities that are universally respected (that I know of) that would come to a decision that would be accepted nationwide.

 

[BSB67]

This is all made up anyway.
The "survivor" description is broad in nature. Once money became an issue, the various dignitaries got together and came up with their own points to use to determine what is a genuine survivor by their own definition.
It is all opinion. It is subjective. What one man thinks is beautiful may be beautiful to him while I may think it is hideous. People collect AMC Pacers for Christ's sake.
Technically, all old cars survived if they still exist but their mechanical and physical conditions can vary greatly.
It isn't like Merriam-Webster where they are the authority on the English Language for authors. Few people rebuke their decisions.
There are no automotive authorities that are universally respected (that I know of) that would come to a decision that would be accepted nationwide.

Wait, you don’t like Pacers?

 

[WileE]

A very, very interesting topic of debate. What constitutes a "survivor" ? According to "whom" ?

This is all made up anyway.
The "survivor" description is broad in nature. Once money became an issue, the various dignitaries got together and came up with their own points to use to determine what is a genuine survivor by their own definition.
It is all opinion. It is subjective. What one man thinks is beautiful may be beautiful to him while I may think it is hideous. People collect AMC Pacers for Christ's sake.
Technically, all old cars survived if they still exist but their mechanical and physical conditions can vary greatly.
It isn't like Merriam-Webster where they are the authority on the English Language for authors. Few people rebuke their decisions.
There are no automotive authorities that are universally respected (that I know of) that would come to a decision that would be accepted nationwide.

Precisely. Very broad in nature. Who is the designated "authority" to dictate such ? I have a couple of survivors... do I care if someone else doesn't think so ?

 

[WileE]

Best I remember to qualify as survivor it needs to be 90% original paint and interior. unmolested everywhere else. with exception to a small amount of safety / maint items

According to whom ? Who is the "authority" that designates parameters ? I think that is the spurious part of this topic.

 

[Kern Dog]

Rick Ehrenberg commented that it was the Corvette guys that caused the "survivor" title to gain such momentum.

 

[WileE]

Rick Ehrenberg commented that it was the Corvette guys that caused the "survivor" title to gain such momentum.

And, if I recall, they supposedly had an issue with anyone else outside of their "Corvettedom" using the Survivor designation.

 

[Kern Dog]

Corvette owners?

 

[440 PHIXX]

And, if I recall, they supposedly had an issue with anyone else outside of their "Corvettedom" using the Survivor designation.

That makes sense. They were the original “matching numbers” guys. But since no Corvette or any GM car had the engine designation in the VIN til 1972, not a surprise.

 

[Budnicks]

Here's how I understand it

when you get into panels replaced, no matter how small
& full repaints
it's not a survivor anymore
maybe a slight "dent/s" repair here & there, spot body work
not any welded-in/on or replaced panels
& it's OK for reg. consumables,
like brake pads, shoes, belts, hoses, tire, lite bulbs, filters
with factory #s coded, direct replacement parts
not any interior work either or no vinyl top replaced
or grills, chrome trim replaced with any sort of 'repops' etc.

IMHFO it/that would still be considered "a survivor"

but at who's (judging) digressions ?

 

[gtx6970]

According to whom ? Who is the "authority" that designates parameters ? I think that is the spurious part of this topic.

I believe his name Mel Majors if I remember correctly. He was the one charge / created the Mopar side of it, / orchestrated it so to speak

Ive dont have or ever had a car even close to being a " Survivor " so I could be wrong

 

[WileE]

I believe his name Mel Majors if I remember correctly. He was the one charge / created the Mopar side of it, / orchestrated it so to speak

Ive dont have or ever had a car even close to being a " Survivor " so I could be wrong

Actually, Mel just instituted his own version of a survivor tent at Carlisle. I've had my Doba in his tent a couple times. Sadly, he's passed away. His son Greg is still maintaining the feature at Carlisle.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Perhaps a better term would be "unrestored".

 

[66 Sat]

I think it depends who's selling it and how much money they are trying to make...

 

[1STMP]

If I replaced the front bumper, the rear quarter panel and the front fender with the same vintage part, would it still be considered a survivor?

Survivor in my mind means
nothing touched. Dents,
dings, paint, all origonal.
If in sometime of its normal
operation, it suffered
damage enough to deter
its operation or looks, and
someone attemted repairs,
it's no longer a survivor.
Suevivor is just what it
means. It's put up with
the battle scars of life and
is still operable.

 

[cosgig]

Here’s my dilemma with having a survivor. It has something that you would like to fix or replace, but buying a shiny new part now sticks out, like the bumper initially mentioned. So, to remain a “survivor” you seek out better quality parts than you have, but don’t go for the new part. I’ve done that a couple times already, I had a drivers door mirror, it was better than the one on the car, but still peppered up a little. I changed it. I wanted period license plates, the license plate guy says “I have a really nice pair”, I said…”do you have a pair that’s not so nice”, and I bought those. My bumpers were not so nice, but new bumpers would surely stick out, so I just set about to clean them up. I changed the broken emblem in the grille but didn’t fix or replace the broken tooth behind it. I also left the hood trim with the dent in it. I ordered a new seat cover for the front, because the original one is tattered up. I changed the carpet and headliner for mousy reasons. I changed the drivers floor pan because it was rusted by the gas pedal and the end of the crossmember was soft. I bought a stub from Derrick Fettig for $50 and fixed it. A guy called it an abortion, and told me he would buy it off my widow when it failed and I crashed it and died. That was 5 years ago, I’m still around!

I don’t want it “restored” so I’m going with the preservation mode. And I’m fine with that. I don’t care what category my car is in, it has a history all its own, and I’m preserving that. It has had one owner besides me, the original owner, and I get to hear about every bump, bruise, and story about it, not many people get to do that with a car!

 

[1STMP]

Here’s my dilemma with having a survivor. It has something that you would like to fix or replace, but buying a shiny new part now sticks out, like the bumper initially mentioned. So, to remain a “survivor” you seek out better quality parts than you have, but don’t go for the new part. I’ve done that a couple times already, I had a drivers door mirror, it was better than the one on the car, but still peppered up a little. I changed it. I wanted period license plates, the license plate guy says “I have a really nice pair”, I said…”do you have a pair that’s not so nice”, and I bought those. My bumpers were not so nice, but new bumpers would surely stick out, so I just set about to clean them up. I changed the broken emblem in the grille but didn’t fix or replace the broken tooth behind it. I also left the hood trim with the dent in it. I ordered a new seat cover for the front, because the original one is tattered up. I changed the carpet and headliner for mousy reasons. I changed the drivers floor pan because it was rusted by the gas pedal and the end of the crossmember was soft. I bought a stub from Derrick Fettig for $50 and fixed it. A guy called it an abortion, and told me he would buy it off my widow when it failed and I crashed it and died. That was 5 years ago, I’m still around!

I don’t want it “restored” so I’m going with the preservation mode. And I’m fine with that. I don’t care what category my car is in, it has a history all its own, and I’m preserving that. It has had one owner besides me, the original owner, and I get to hear about every bump, bruise, and story about it, not many people get to do that with a car!

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Like the car.
Call it a suvivor to this point
and do what you want with
it. Any repairs from this point
forward negates the survivor
status. Who cares. It's yours.
I've a 1940 Plymouth. Some
parts survived.