Is this 440’s crank drilled for manual trans?

[Sonny]

This is the only pic I took before installing the engine. If you zoom in you can see a hole in the crank. Is this hole for a pilot bearing? This is a ‘78 block but could have a newer crank. I heard Mopar didn’t add the hole after ‘74 or so?

 

[BeepBeepRR]

This is the only pic I took before installing the engine. If you zoom in you can see a hole in the crank. Is this hole for a pilot bearing? This is a ‘78 block but could have a newer crank. I heard Mopar didn’t add the hole after ‘74 or so?
View attachment 1010840

Yup its a crank for either manual or automatic. But your post doesn't explain 440-4-speed cars from 67 to 70 now does it?

 

[66Satellite47]

Sure can't see from that pic. The manual trans crank has a clearly deep two step, machined bore. The auto version is a single bore hole.

 

[Daves69]

....Is this hole for a pilot bearing?....

If it helps, a '68 440 automatic trans crank I found the necessary depth was there for an un-cut manual trans input shaft, but the .890" (green) diameter was undersize for the stock bushing.
A thin wall bushing, opening up the .890" diameter for a stock bushing, or installing the needle bearing in the red area of the crank are three possible options for this crank use with a manual trans.

 

[Sonny]

Thanks guys. Not interested enough to pull back apart! .
Just curious.

 

[MoparDanMan]

This is the only pic I took before installing the engine. If you zoom in you can see a hole in the crank. Is this hole for a pilot bearing? This is a ‘78 block but could have a newer crank. I heard Mopar didn’t add the hole after ‘74 or so?
View attachment 1010840

Unless I am remembering it wrong, all cranks are drilled for both manual and automatic transmissions. On a manual they just installed the pilot bushing. IMHO it would be easier to make all the cranks the same, it would be counter productive to have to make/stock two different cranks for every engine you make.

 

[R/T Boy 67]

Cranks came one of four ways. Drilled and reamed with bushing installed, drilled and reamed, drilled, not drilled.

 

[R413]

As stated above, some were drilled and not. Finished to size so you couldn’t install a pilot bushing.

NAPA did sell a smaller bushing for the non reamed hole and it worked when I used one. Now the discontinued that part number, and Sorry I don’t have the number anymore.

 

[Cranky]

Unless I am remembering it wrong, all cranks are drilled for both manual and automatic transmissions. On a manual they just installed the pilot bushing. IMHO it would be easier to make all the cranks the same, it would be counter productive to have to make/stock two different cranks for every engine you make.

That would be incorrect. No use in going with the extra $$ in machining expense if the crank will be going into an engine in front of an automatic. ChryCo wasn't a huge company like GM and Ford so they cut corners where they could. The cranks were machined in batches and only so many had the extra machine work for the standard trans and plenty of cranks that weren't machined for the auto trans. If you found a crank machined for a stick in an automatic car, it was either a mistake or they ran out of cranks for the autos and grabbed drilled cranks to keep the line going if there was a interruption with the supply line. Also, if you wanted to install a stick, you usually had to cut off an inch or so of the input shaft because of the hole in the auto crank wasn't deep enough. At one time you could buy a bearing that fit in the torque converter register to support the end of the input shaft......

 

[tnfastback]

That would be incorrect. No use in going with the extra $$ in machining expense if the crank will be going into an engine in front of an automatic. ChryCo wasn't a huge company like GM and Ford so they cut corners where they could. The cranks were machined in batches and only so many had the extra machine work for the standard trans and plenty of cranks that weren't machined for the auto trans. If you found a crank machined for a stick in an automatic car, it was either a mistake or they ran out of cranks for the autos and grabbed drilled cranks to keep the line going if there was a interruption with the supply line. Also, if you wanted to install a stick, you usually had to cut off an inch or so of the input shaft because of the hole in the auto crank wasn't deep enough. At one time you could buy a bearing that fit in the torque converter register to support the end of the input shaft......

Your name is CRANKY so I will take you as an absolute authority on CRANKS

 

[Mick56]

I had a 66 Sport Fury, 383 auto. The trans went out, so I put a 4 speed in it. The crank was not drilled deep enough, I cut an 1" or so off the pilot shaft. The pilot bushing didn't fit right at all. It ended up being a cluster, would have been better just to replace the auto.​

 

[Dipstick]

Factory pilot bushing bore dimensions.

 

[moparwacko]

Diehard Mopar guys keep a stash of the unobtainium bushings........

 

[dadsbee]

Or you can have both. Drilled crank, bushing and a bearing. Had no choice, as I'd cut the tip off my #'s trans years ago to put it in another car when I was a teen. Bearing works great and haven't had a gear grind yet putting her in gear.

 

[Cranky]

Or you can have both. Drilled crank, bushing and a bearing. Had no choice, as I'd cut the tip off my #'s trans years ago to put it in another car when I was a teen. Bearing works great and haven't had a gear grind yet putting her in gear.
View attachment 1010951 View attachment 1010952

Yup, that's the one I was thinking about in my post above. I'm thinking they are still available?

Diehard Mopar guys keep a stash of the unobtainium bushings........

Thought maybe I still had one or two and do along with some distributor bushings and even have some brass bearing stock if there's ever a need to make one!

 

[dadsbee]

Yes, I believe they are used in Dodge Dakotas. I got mine from Nigel at Nationalmoparts.

 

[bandit67]

Factory pilot bushing bore dimensions.

View attachment 1010918

Thanks for posting Dip, I am taking a cast 440 crank to my machine shop this week to have it drilled for the pilot bushing and as I do trust their work, these dimensions should hopefully secure a successful job......

 

[andyf]

Unless I am remembering it wrong, all cranks are drilled for both manual and automatic transmissions. On a manual they just installed the pilot bushing. IMHO it would be easier to make all the cranks the same, it would be counter productive to have to make/stock two different cranks for every engine you make.

That is modern thinking. These days engineers are trained to make parts compatible across different product lines in order to reduce inventory and waste. But back in the '60s and '70s the Mopar engineers thought it was better to make everything unique. After they went bankrupt a couple of times they started to rethink that method! But back in the day they made different flavors of cranks and the result of that mistake still haunts us today as you can see by reading this thread.

Kind of like the LH and RH lug nut idea they tried for a few years. That was also a stupid mistake but it took them years to figure it out.

And of course the 8 bolt flange for Hemi vs. the 6 bolt for the wedge. Another stupid idea. The Hemi didn't need a 8 bolt flange to hold 500 hp. The 6 bolt flange works just fine up past 1000 hp so there was zero reason to put a special flange on the Hemi. The engineers just didn't know any better back then. Unless they worked at Chevy and then they knew somehow that the BBC didn't need 8 1/2 bolts to hold the flywheel on.

 

[Photon440]

That is modern thinking. These days engineers are trained to make parts compatible across different product lines in order to reduce inventory and waste. But back in the '60s and '70s the Mopar engineers thought it was better to make everything unique. After they went bankrupt a couple of times they started to rethink that method! But back in the day they made different flavors of cranks and the result of that mistake still haunts us today as you can see by reading this thread.

Kind of like the LH and RH lug nut idea they tried for a few years. That was also a stupid mistake but it took them years to figure it out.

And of course the 8 bolt flange for Hemi vs. the 6 bolt for the wedge. Another stupid idea. The Hemi didn't need a 8 bolt flange to hold 500 hp. The 6 bolt flange works just fine up past 1000 hp so there was zero reason to put a special flange on the Hemi. The engineers just didn't know any better back then. Unless they worked at Chevy and then they knew somehow that the BBC didn't need 8 1/2 bolts to hold the flywheel on.

Yeah, well a lot of those 8 bolt hemis were going to be modified and run blowers, maybe they were thinking ahead. As for the left hand nuts, people often forget that Chrysler wasn't the only car company doing that. (I know I've mentioned this earlier but...) ..until 1965 most Olds, Buick and Pontiacs has LH threads on that side. Jeep kept it up until 1971. Rolls Royce and Bentley used them until at least the late 1980s. Ford F-350 dualies had them until 1986 in 9/16 size. Common on semi-trucks and trailers in 3/4" and up, no problem finding new studs and complete hubs in that configuration right now.

My 440 (a 1969) was fully drilled, but not reamed so I had to use an undersized bushing when switching to a four speed.

 

[66Satellite47]

That is modern thinking. These days engineers are trained to make parts compatible across different product lines in order to reduce inventory and waste. But back in the '60s and '70s the Mopar engineers thought it was better to make everything unique. After they went bankrupt a couple of times they started to rethink that method! But back in the day they made different flavors of cranks and the result of that mistake still haunts us today as you can see by reading this thread.

Kind of like the LH and RH lug nut idea they tried for a few years. That was also a stupid mistake but it took them years to figure it out.

And of course the 8 bolt flange for Hemi vs. the 6 bolt for the wedge. Another stupid idea. The Hemi didn't need a 8 bolt flange to hold 500 hp. The 6 bolt flange works just fine up past 1000 hp so there was zero reason to put a special flange on the Hemi. The engineers just didn't know any better back then. Unless they worked at Chevy and then they knew somehow that the BBC didn't need 8 1/2 bolts to hold the flywheel on.

Ya, Mopar engineers did overengineer some things. Main one they didn't was the undercut crank fillets on BB motors. But I guess they figured that was adequate for a 5000 RPM motor. Unfortunately a dumb *** like myself decided to spin those up to 7000 RPM.
An adage from my civil engineering school days, "when in doubt, make it stout".