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Issue with Starter acting dead after a drive.

RedShadow30

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Before we start. 1972 Dodge Charger, 440. new starter, alt is new and a 70 amp, battery is a duralast gold.

Im having an issue with the starter acting like the batterys dead after driving around for about 10 minutes. Im hoping its just an issue with the heat or a loose line. I dont get much time to work on it with work ramping up recently, so I wanted to get some ideas from the experts if there is anything else it could be or i should look out for. I have to use my time wisely =/. Im also wondering if maybe the alt may be too small. I was warned about it, but I didint have an issue till recently. I cant wait to get this thing reliable on the road so I can take it to a track and show it off.
 
I'm no expert, but I had the same problem with my 70 R.R. It would start cold, but once I drove it, even for a sort time, it didn't want to restart. Turned out my battery wasn't fully charged. Once I put a full charge on it, I haven't had a problem since. Hopefully yours is that simple. Good Luck.
 
Ten minutes really isn't long enough for heat soak to be the problem, I don't think. Is it a full-sized starter or a mini? If it's FS, is it jammed right up against a header pipe?
 
Does the car have headers? Will it start after it cools down? Stock starter? If so, probably a heat issue.
 
Its got manifolds on it, Its a full sized stock starter too. I havint had the chance to get back out to it today due to freak florida storms. I should of checked the negitive line on the starter, Ive had 3 V8s that shake that loose no matter how hard I tighten it, But I panicked when the rain started and I dont let it see water so I put it up quick. But about the heat issue, I dont have a shroud and its not the coolest setup, I do need to do a few more things to it to make it road trusted.

Charger Engine.jpg

Thats whats in it so-far if that helps.
 
What does the car do when it "acts like the battery's dead"? Slow cranking? Clicking? Nothing?
 
Very slow crank for about 2 seconds, then goes to a click. Ive never had a problem with the starter or battery till just now. Just so frustrating. It sat for 4 years in a garage so i felt it was best to replace the starter, alt battery, the main lines to the starter, solenoid, pretty much everything. Its been starting great every other day for 5 months till i got swamped with work and it sat 2 weeks.

I will not let this mopar die on me, no, its my baby and I will not give up. I worked since i was 17 to get my dream car and its finally mine, just cant drive it yet. So frustrating.
 
clean the negative battery at the battery and the block....sand it a bit to make good connection. my 440 was doing the same thing.
 
You might also add a 'toothed' lock washer to your battery cable ground bolt, positive cable to starter solenoid bolt and both ends of your starter to relay cable. That should cure your 'vibrating loose' issue.
 
Very slow crank for about 2 seconds, then goes to a click.

Mine was doing that too, but it was the battery. After being killed a dozen times by a parasite drain over the past three summers when I forgot to turn the shutoff switch, the battery held about 5% of its capacity. First few times I hit the brake pedal and sent the needle into "discharge" territory after starting the car, the reserve was used up. New battery has fixed the problem. (And I'm hitting that shutoff EVERY time the car gets back into the garage.)
 
Go to Rad Shack and get two--three bags of their clip leads. One bag with the bigger clips, another of the smaller, and if you do not have a multimeter BUY one.

Get the engine running and warm, and kick the RPM up to simulate "medium cruise" Measure charging voltage right at the battery. It should be around 13.8--14.2, and in no case below 13.5 nor above 14.5

IF NOT substitute another battery, charge that one and test again, and if still low, repair the charging system

If this is OK, do the following:

(Easier with two people)

Stab the meter DIRECTLY into the tops of the battery posts, NOT the battery clamps, but the actual battery posts

Have someone crank the engine for at least 5 seconds if it will crank that long and then take a reading WHILE it is cranking. You should have AT LEAST 10.5 bolts, and the higher the better.

IF NOT make sure the battery is charged, or do so, then take the battery to someone who has a battery LOAD TESTER and have the battery tested



THIS is what a load tester looks like. If the teen-age "parts man" comes out with something in one hand, go somewhere else

carbon-pile-tester.jpg


If the battery load test is OK, time for more tests. You may have to perform these with the engine warm if nothing shows up cold

Clean clean CLEAN the battery cable clamps

If the battery is charged, load tests OK, and cleaning the battery clamps don't help, it's either:

bad cables

bad connections

or the starter

Clip your meter using clip leads onto the big stud on the starter. Do not hook to the cable terminal, but the stud itself.

Stab the other meter lead, set on low DC volts, into the positive cable clamp on the battery. You are measuring voltage drop through the cable.

Crank the starter using either a remote button, or with a screwdriver jumpering the start relay. Read the meter WHILE CRANKING You are hoping for a low reading here, the lower the better, and more than about .4V (4 tenths of one volt) means either the cable is bad, or the start is drawing a HELL of a lot of current

Make the same test on the NEG cable. Clip your meter to a good ground on the block, and stab the other probe into the NEG clamp on the battery. Crank the engine, read the meter, same reading as above.

If you get the SAME drop readings (or close) on both cables it is likely that the STARTER is AFU.

If one cable has say, twice the drop, IE one is .3, the other .6, then the cable with the higher reading is too small, corroded inside, or a bad connection.

IF YOU can get the car to wherever the load tester is, you can also use the load tester to measure starter current draw. You do this by what is called "matching amperage."

The way a carbon pile tester works is by using a huge adjustable resistor to pull current from the battery, just like hooking a whole truck load of light bulbs to it. So to test starter draw, you hook up the carbon pile tester, with the resistor to the left CCW. No load. You crank the engine a few seconds and watch for the battery voltage to load down under the sarter load, and NOTE the battery voltage with the starter cranking. Let's say, 10.7V just a figure.

Then you release the starter, and you crank in a load on the battery by cranking the resistor in CW until the voltmeter drops down to the SAME reading as when you were cranking, the 10.7V or whatever it read. Then you quickly read the ammeter and this LOAD reading will be the same as what the starter was drawing.


To wind this all up, there are four main areas of starter problems:

Worn out, or undercharged battery, or just too small for the engine

Bad cable connections, or internally damaged cables

Bad starter

Engine dragging, IE spun bearings, etc or other abnormal causes of engine / transmission friction.
 
Once again, great advise and easy to follow. Thanks for the primer, 440roadrunner...
 
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Yea, Im sure its the battery now. Its got a crappy aftermarket fan for the transmission cooler and someone got in an hit the switch for it. (been having an issue with kids breaking into cars around here, I just leave the door unlocked and save a window.) And long story short it killed my battery. Its a duralast gold though so I can just have it replaced, and im gonna remove that fan, it just clogs the airflow. The battery was relocated to the trunk, but the wiring was done professionaly from what I can tell. But Im going to redo the ground with a thicker guage. I got a volt meter and im gonna check the alt and the battery asap, make sure its charging right, and go through that entire checklist.
 
Didint do the checklist yet but I needed a distraction from school, jumpstarted it, started fine, Idles fine, but the lights dim with the engine, and the voltmeter says 8 volts, not sure how accurate it is because its cheap. But the dash volt meter shows its closer to the C than the D. I have never had luck with electronics and vehicles. I have been told I need to put the bigger 100amp alt on but I never figured the 70 amp could cause that much of a problem. I had about 5 minutes before it rained again so I didint have time to test much else.
 
double check all power and ground connections are clean and tight
 
"But the dash volt meter shows its closer to the C than the D."

How did you make out? I know its a big battery if i read right but ive bought battery's before and had to take them back, just my opinion but this sounds like the battery. If you turn the lights on and there dim after you Just charged it full and started the car there has to be a bad battery there, a battery just fully charged your lights should be as bright as can be, car started or not they should be bright..JMO but id borrow a good battery from someone and try it, at the very least you'll know it isint your battery. only a suggestion. Maybe its fixed by now, i check back every once in awhile to see what the problem was, it may happen to me lol, i keep all pert-ant info for any problems..
 
You need to do whatever it takes to get an accurate voltmeter. Modern digi meters are NOT expensive. 25-40 bucks will buy a plenty good enough meter.

IF the battery truely is running 8V IT IS DEAD. This means it's either discharged, or worn out, or defective. First thing to try is charge it up and see where you stand.

You MUST start with a GOOD working CHARGED battery before you can do anything else.

For are "real quick" check on charging, that is, the alternator, find the green and blue field wires at the alternator. Remove the GREEN wire and hook the terminal on the alternator you unhooked to ground. Turn the key to "run" and verify that you have battery voltage at the blue field wire, and near zero at the terminal with the clip lead to ground.

Start the car, bring up RPM and see if you get a substantial charge on the ammeter. If not, stick your voltmeter on the alternator stud to ground, and gently bring up RPM on the engine. See if the voltage increases. If it goes quite high, you have a problem in the charging line from the alternator, through the bulkhead, the ammeter, and back out the bulkhead to the battery.

If you get no voltage increase at the alternator output, nor charge indication on the meter, you have alternator problems.
 
i am also having the same problem i put the batt in trunk it will start cold fine but when warm it turns very slow 1/4 then goes click i can hear the starter but it wont turn the motor. i have checked all grounds and no problems im charging the batt but i put a 55a jump start on it and it also didnt work i have a new mini starter i also ad one before that did the same thing thought it was it so i changed it and didnt help i thought it could be timing but no matter where i turn it it doent help it any

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i am also having the same problem i put the batt in trunk it will start cold fine but when warm it turns very slow 1/4 then goes click i can hear the starter but it wont turn the motor. i have checked all grounds and no problems im charging the batt but i put a 55a jump start on it and it also didnt work i have a new mini starter i also ad one before that did the same thing thought it was it so i changed it and didnt help i thought it could be timing but no matter where i turn it it doent help it any
 
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