Lower Ball Joint to LCA Fitment

[mrmolding]

Question for all of the gurus! I got a complete kit for suspension rebuild and the lower ball joint bolt is a "little" loose in the lower control arm hole. It moves a tiny bit back and forth. When the castle nut is tight, it does not move.
I had an older moog ball joint and the fit is very tight but of course the boot was not pressed on and I tore it with a ball joint tool.
So, just wondering if I am overthinking things and the ball joint that is a little loose is ok or if I should find one that fits better.

 

[493 Mike]

Try picking the joint with a floor jack and then check for motion. If there is none I would use it. If not one of the tapers is incorrect.
Mike

 

[PurpleBeeper]

agree with 493Mike, make sure. Obviously there shouldn't be any play when it's tightened up, even without any weight on it

 

[mrmolding]

Neighbor of mine who builds motors said to tighten it up to torque and then take castle nut off to see if ball joint stays put. It did not. It fell out. Hmm..

 

[ckessel]

I wonder if the manufactures are using a stud for our ball joints that "fits" but is incorrect. I have seen that happen on uppers. Using a stud for another application to consolidate inventory during manufacturing. One of the reasons the uppers can contain a flat washer now due to a portion of the stud being longer and the castle nut will not match up to the pin hole unless the washer is under the nut.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Neighbor of mine who builds motors said to tighten it up to torque and then take castle nut off to see if ball joint stays put. It did not. It fell out. Hmm..

Well your neighbor is spot on... You need to find a ball joint the fits... And let us know who made the one that doesn't fit..

 

[mrmolding]

I wonder if the manufactures are using a stud for our ball joints that "fits" but is incorrect. I have seen that happen on uppers. Using a stud for another application to consolidate inventory during manufacturing. One of the reasons the uppers can contain a flat washer now due to a portion of the stud being longer and the castle nut will not match up to the pin hole unless the washer is under the nut.

There are two different sized washers with uca ball joint. Makes sense now! Thanks.

 

[mrmolding]

Well your neighbor is spot on... You need to find a ball joint the fits... And let us know who made the one that doesn't fit..

This is the ball joint...

 

[dadsbee]

Whom did you get this "full kit" from?? They should be made aware...

 

[ckessel]

When I came upon the issue on the upper joints, it was when I was rebuilding the front suspension on a 37 Chevy with a stang 2 conversion. Uses Mopar screw in joints. What I found was after putting all together, the upper arm was hitting an area of the spindle when at full droop. Should not do that. Pulled it back apart to see WTF. I discovered that the stud in the joint was different from what was in already. Got some different ones, same story. WTF again. Found that the overall length of the stud from ball to tip was different, length of the straight portion to where the taper started was different, length of the stop from start of taper to end of it was different, length of where taper ended to where threaded portion ended was different. We did get two joints from NAPA that were the same so that is what we used. I talked to the rep from Proforged at the SEMA show one year about this. He confessed that they along with others have consolidated some production parts to utilize the same parts as some others if the differences were minor, to them. So... you must be wary of what you get. You can get joints which are taller, like the Howe and QA1 circle track units, which can affect geometries on alignment when they are different between the two sides. One short, one long.

 

[mrmolding]

When I came upon the issue on the upper joints, it was when I was rebuilding the front suspension on a 37 Chevy with a stang 2 conversion. Uses Mopar screw in joints. What I found was after putting all together, the upper arm was hitting an area of the spindle when at full droop. Should not do that. Pulled it back apart to see WTF. I discovered that the stud in the joint was different from what was in already. Got some different ones, same story. WTF again. Found that the overall length of the stud from ball to tip was different, length of the straight portion to where the taper started was different, length of the stop from start of taper to end of it was different, length of where taper ended to where threaded portion ended was different. We did get two joints from NAPA that were the same so that is what we used. I talked to the rep from Proforged at the SEMA show one year about this. He confessed that they along with others have consolidated some production parts to utilize the same parts as some others if the differences were minor, to them. So... you must be wary of what you get. You can get joints which are taller, like the Howe and QA1 circle track units, which can affect geometries on alignment when they are different between the two sides. One short, one long.

Thanks! I actually ordered the proforged ball joints to replace these. If these have issues I guess it’s nos parts or hope I don’t rip another moog boot. Stay tuned and thanks again everyone!

 

[Cranky]

Also might be a good idea to 'blue' the taper and then fit it to the LCA to make sure the taper is the same. Just because it 'sticks' in place after tightening it doesn't mean the tapers are fitting right. I've found them to be different especially with junk made in China but I'm guessing it's all made there now? Some years back a customer brought me some made in China parts and my upper ball joint socket didn't even fit the dang upper joint!! Freakin crazy!

 

[ckessel]

I've come across brass fittings where the threaded portion is correct but the hex is metric. Some fasteners too. Never thought about the taper angle. Must add the taper check in to my hard drive for things to watch out for.

 

[mrmolding]

Also might be a good idea to 'blue' the taper and then fit it to the LCA to make sure the taper is the same. Just because it 'sticks' in place after tightening it doesn't mean the tapers are fitting right. I've found them to be different especially with junk made in China but I'm guessing it's all made there now? Some years back a customer brought me some made in China parts and my upper ball joint socket didn't even fit the dang upper joint!! Freakin crazy!

What is blue? A little bit of a noob. That or I forgot after 35 years.

 

[Cranky]

What is blue? A little bit of a noob. That or I forgot after 35 years.

Bluing ink....or lay out fluid. It comes as a spray or brush on AND as a paste lol

 

[mrmolding]

Bluing ink....or lay out fluid. It comes as a spray or brush on AND as a paste lol

Makes sense! Thanks!

 

[mrmolding]

Wanted to give an update. I ditched the cheapo OSX lower ball joints and decided to try Proforged. They actually passed the torque and remove the castle nut and not fall out test. But of course nothing is perfect! The included castle nut has deeper grooves and it appears that the cotter pin hole is farther up the stud as mentioned by another member. But, the distance/compressed bushing height between the LCA hole and ball joint in the same as original on other side. So, I'm going to get a grade 8 washer or two and call it a day. Thanks for the help everyone!