Need advice on my 440

[Runner71]

Okay, ive been working on a 440 for a while. 2 plane weiand with 750 street demon. Put a whiplash stick in it, im at 25 degrees / 12hg initial and 37/8 tot (mayby a bit high), closed chamberd 452 heads 79cc heads with newly grind valves. New crosshatch in cylinder bore and new piston rings.

First startup. Run the cam in for 20-25min went well. It smoked ( white ) from exhaust on idle and all over the powerband, but it moved pretty good. my tires were smokin the 1gear without even trying ( 4spd A833 ). So i order new rings, got it crosshatched and put them in. the old ones didnt sealed and cylinder was glazed.

First startup - No smoke from exhaust. drove it for about 40min got home parked it in the garage. Next day took the initial down to 18 + 20 = 38 a 10hg on vac. changed a stepup spring for lower vaccum.. took it for a spin, feels a bit weeker on the powerband ( throttle response ) so got it back up on initial again and more vacuum. The more initial he gets the more idle vacuum i get so ive been tuneing after that.

But now i started to see smoke ( white ) from passenger side exhaust again. a bit on startup not while im driving but as soon i stop the car and check on idle i see some white smoke puffin..

My oil still looks like brandnew, no bubbles no nothing on dipstick. exhaust condensation doesnt smell, taste or sticks on the hand. I dont loose any coolant but i dont get alot of heat in the car? figure i need to bleed it? Every gasket ive took of is brandnew aswell.

Its the smoke thats gets me, thats why i changed the piston rings and cleaned all the valves.
Does it need more time on the road? Ive drivin it like 1.5 - 2 hours so far, like normal but not on high revs. Im clueless on the smoke? But i got some more tuneing to figure out on the carb and ignition thats for sure, but im learing as i go.

I would greatly appreciate some feedback on this, the summer is nearly over (like 2months left) and i cant stand the white smoke on idle.. should i pull the heads again and try new gaskets or get some more miles on it first?

 

[Frank Mopar]

White smoke would be coolant

 

[Runner71]

But from what? so its a headgasket then, if not a crack ( worst case? )

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Have the heads magged for cracks,

 

[Frank Mopar]

I would run it, keep a keen eye on oil level and coolant.

Check the plugs after a while and they will tell the story.

 

[Runner71]

hmm ok.. hopefully it could disappear with time? or just pull the head and see

 

[lewtot184]

intake manifold could be sucking oil. monitor the spark plugs closely.

 

[Frank Mopar]

hmm ok.. hopefully it could disappear with time? or just pull the head and see

You have to run it long enough to lets the plugs color. Some will either be oil fouled or in case of a coolant leak, super clean. You can pull heads but you have no idea where to start looking.

 

[Runner71]

intake manifold could be sucking oil. monitor the spark plugs closely.

But the smoke is really white? Well i could take the camera and go down manifold and see if i the seal is clear or not. Guess ill get some more time on it and watch the plugs for a while.. Need to find the tuneing aswell, dont feel like the power is where it should be atm

 

[Dajkzo]

Hi,


Before you pull the heads, you should pressure test the cooling system. A tester is about the same price as the gaskets.

1) Test the system cold. Once you get to the rated pressure that is on the radiator cap, let it sit for a few minutes. All the hoses will stretch a little so you have to pump it up, let it settle and then watch it to make sure it does not drop.
2) With the tester installed, run the engine and let it reach operating temp The gauge should indicate it's holding steady pressure and it will increase as the engine warms up and the needle should not jump around. If there is a leak into the cylinder, the needle is going to bounce as the engine runs.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/snn-12270/overview/

Or perhaps you can borrow one. A valve seat can leak and if it's in the exhaust side, it would not mix the oil and coolant, it would just leak into the exhaust. A crack can do the same thing. And it does not take much to get a little smoke. The good news is a valve seat can be replaced by a competent engine machine shop.

So you have to be patient and go step by step. If you can, post a picture of the exhaust with the smoke or a link to a video.

 

[Wietse]

You would say that after 1.5-2 hours of driving time you would be able to find some indication on the plugs right?

Some will either be oil fouled or in case of a coolant leak, super clean.

This tip is what i would check for rather then pulling a head.

 

[Runner71]

You have to run it long enough to lets the plugs color. Some will either be oil fouled or in case of a coolant leak, super clean. You can pull heads but you have no idea where to start looking.

Okay, gonna give the car some more time to color the plugs before i do anything then, just annoying to know somethings aint right

 

[Runner71]

Pulled the plugs on passenger side, from the right, 2 - 4 - 6 - 8. Could it be oil thats get in? Wouldnt the smoke darker if that was the case?

 

[Wietse]

#8 seems greasy indeed, while #2 is clean of deposits...
Maybe would check around #8 cylinder first if this is sucking oil at the intake gasket/valley pan?

 

[Runner71]

#8 seems greasy indeed, while #2 is clean of deposits...
Maybe would check around #8 cylinder first if this is sucking oil at the intake gasket/valley pan?

I have no gaskets on either side of the valleypan and the heads have been milled alot. So maybe the angle between the two is more off then i can see. Should i try get a gasket in there and not only black RTV.
Picture 1.
Leftside is the intake, the middle is the RTV beam and the gasket against the topside. Very hard to see on picture doe.
Picture 2
Plugs on driver side, from right 7 - 5 - 3 - 1
This side do not put out any smoke.

 

[lewtot184]

from the photos i'd say sucking oil from the bottom of the intake. usually you can see an oil wash across the rim of the plug. the detergent in oil can create a spot on the rim that will wipe clean with your finger and that spot will line up with the intake valve. test fit the intake with the gasket surfaces clean, and no gasket, to see if it will lay flat. if not then you've got some juggling to do.

 

[Runner71]

from the photos i'd say sucking oil from the bottom of the intake. usually you can see an oil wash across the rim of the plug. the detergent in oil can create a spot on the rim that will wipe clean with your finger and that spot will line up with the intake valve. test fit the intake with the gasket surfaces clean, and no gasket, to see if it will lay flat. if not then you've got some juggling to do.

Ok, well i measured the gap between the head and intake with a feeler gauge before i mounted it and the gap was smaller then the actuall valleypan itself but that beeing said there was a gap, so maybe thats the problem?

 

[Runner71]

Well lets see what we can find!

 

[Wietse]

Ok, well i measured the gap between the head and intake with a feeler gauge before i mounted it and the gap was smaller then the actuall valleypan itself but that beeing said there was a gap, so maybe thats the problem?

If there is a gap, even with a gasket/valley pan there will always remain a gap.
A good coat of quality sealant would sort it out if the gap is not too big.
Extreme deviations, caused when a lot of material has been skimmed from head and/or block, require the intake manifold to be machined, but this also could cause the ports not to line up properly anymore as the manifold sits lower then before.
Then the manifold also requires to be ported to make sure it lines up with the cylinder heads.

 

[Runner71]

Looks like they machined intake aswell and the valleypan looks to be sealed right to the heads cant see or feel any gaps between valley and the head, took a thin cuting blade and couldnt get it in there seems like the rtv does its job. But its alot of oil in area, possible the valve seals are bad?