Need Help!!!! This is odd....

[furyous1964]

This is the problem. The car is cranking with no key in the ignition when it goes into park or neutral. That lets me know the neutral safety switch is working. I have to shut it off in D and to start it i have to put it in neutral or park it cranks and then i have to turn the key to fire it up and then hurry and change in to a forward or reverse gear to disengage the starter other wise it will keep cranking. I changed the relay and it still does the same thing. It can't be the starter cause it is not stuck all the time but it is getting the signal to crank without the key and only in neutral or park. Could it be the ignition switch? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[69 Runner]

Switch would be my guess. Have you tried disconnecting the ignition switch to see what happens?

 

[furyous1964]

That's the other problem. The same thing happens no matter what is disconnected from the relay. The car won't start at all. I disconnected each wire from the relay independently and put the car in park. No matter what wire was reconnected the circuit was complete and the starter would crank. Either the new relay I got is bad also or it is something with the ignition. I even ran an additional ground to the relay to see if it wasn't grounding properly and the same thing happened. It's as if the solenoid is getting a signal from the ignition to say I'm ready to go when its not.

 

[69 Runner]

Maybe it's as simple as having those two wires on the bottom reversed

 

[furyous1964]

I pulled the ignition switch out completely and the car still starts. Does that mean it is the switch? Or did I get another bad sarter relay? Disconnecting the lines to the relay prevents the car from starting but disconnecting the ignition switch with all the lines still hooked up to the relay lets the car still start. I am confused.

 

[khryslerkid]

Your confused :dontknow: What car are you having probs with to start with? Second: did your car just start doing this all at once or did the prob. occur after you did something ?

 

[68ChargerAG]

Sounds to me like something is hooked up wrong and you are getting 12V at the relay without the starter switch sending it... do you have power on one side of the neutral safety switch all of the time? If so, you need to figure out why (where it is coming from) because that is a problem.

 

[furyous1964]

Your confused :dontknow: What car are you having probs with to start with? Second: did your car just start doing this all at once or did the prob. occur after you did something ?

1964 Sport fury it has a 440 in it. It is a problem that happened all of a sudden. I drove the car 96 miles to the mopar spring fling and it ran fine all the way there. No problems except when I went to park the car while it was still running the starter engaged in neutral and stopped in reverse and engaged again in park while the motor was on. I shut the car off and the starter was still running. I had to put it in reverse drive 1st or 2nd to disengage the starter. Every time I put the car in park or neutral without the key and the ignition switch disconnected it still cranks the motor. I disonnected the msd ignition box and it still does it. I changed the relay and it still does it. I tested the ignition switch and it seems to be fine. Also I tested the neutral safety switch and it is fine. No power going to either side of the switch. It seems to be working as a ground only as it should.

 

[khryslerkid]

Wow! That is Crazy. I know the safety neutral switch has to complete the circut when in pk or neut. so something has reversed the sequence. I would trace the wiring from the neutral switch back to the starter either by hand or a wiring diagram. Possibly two wires have crossed somehow either by melting together or by a stuck contact. (switch, relay, starter) And if you have a small wire on the batt. terminal make sure that is ok too. (I don't think that was in use in 64 yet.) Keep us posted!

Make sure you don't have a starter wire melted to your down pipe too. It would serve as a ground back feeding your system...

 

[furyous1964]

Found it!!!!!!!!!!!!

The red wire (hot wire) from the relay to the ignition switch had melted itself to the yellow wire (ignition wire) making the ignition hot all the time. As soon as park or neutral was engaged the neutral safety switch would deactivate allowing the starter to crank without the key in. It was melted on the inside of the car right at the firewall where it goes into the connector to the outside of the firewall. I separated the wires, taped them and all is good. Thanks for all the help and ideas guys. Now the car is in the body shop getting fixed after a harley side swiped me. One problem after another. Oh well i might get a new paint job out of it. All is not lost.

 

[74sundance]

My John Deere lawn tractor does the same thing lmao...The solenoid had arced out inside and wouldn't disengage.

 

[scotts74birds]

Congrats man! Good job. Now........We need to figure root-cause, because NO wire should get hot enough to do that!

 

[63RedFury]

Great

 

[khryslerkid]

:app:

 

[furyous1964]

Congrats man! Good job. Now........We need to figure root-cause, because NO wire should get hot enough to do that!

I changed the starter relay after the incident thinking that was the problem. I have a new relay in but I think the culprit more than anything was corrosion on the connection between the outer and inner firewall. The upper plug connecteor was pretty corroded. I sprayed electrical cleaner and put some di electric grease on the connection for now but I think I will need a new connector eventually. Does anyone know where to get that from? Does it come with a complete wiring harness or can I just get the connection?