Need help

[Ron816]

I replaced cam,timing chain and gears on 440 followed the Manuel which said to bring no 6 to tdc and. Align marks dot to dot my question is do I bring no1 to tdc when installing distributor or do I set to no 6

 

[Hemi Rebel]

If you bring it up on #6 and then change the cam and chain and gears and line them up dot to dot, its now on #1 tdc. Drop the distributor in as such

 

[Ron816]

So I should leave 6 at tdc and just drop,in distributor to no1

 

[Hemi Rebel]

When the timing chain sprockets are lined up dot to dot, you are on #1 tdc of compression stroke. Not #6.
#1 and #6 pistons move together. Meaning when 1 is all the way up, 6 is too. The cam determines what stroke its on. Dot to dot #1 is on tdc of the compression stroke. #6 is on exhaust.
Drop dizzy in on #1

 

[miller]

So I should leave 6 at tdc and just drop,in distributor to no1

You have a service manual?? Any rate, if you understand what's happening, it will be easier. TDC is too vague...which stroke?

If you need to, pull the valve cover over #1 (driver's side) up front, to be able to see the valve action. IF the timing chain is mounted right, bring the timing mark on the balancer up to 0 degree (TDC). Both #1 and 6 will be at TDC, but at different strokes. Not knowing if the crank has been rotated, watch the valves for #1. 'Rock' the crank back and forth a few degrees. If you see slight movement on both valves...#1 tdc is on exhaust stroke. If you see NO movement for either valve...#1 tdc is on compression stroke.
And, watching the timing mark on the balancer...the mark comes to 0 degree twice. For #1, once for compression, once for exhaust strokes. That's for every two revolutions of the crank. You drop your dizzy in, at TDC compression stroke. That's the basic stroke you work off of. Once you get it, rotate the crank backwards, past the initial timing you want. Then, in rotation,
bring the timing mark up to, let's say 10-12 degrees BEFORE TDC, and stop. Then, you mount up the dizzy.

 

[Ron816]

So if I installed with no6 at tdc on the compression stroke then I can drop dizzy in to no1 just like normal?

 

[Hemi Rebel]

So if I installed with no6 at tdc on the compression stroke then I can drop dizzy in to no1 just like normal?

No. Forget number 6 and if i ever meet the guy who wrote your manual i am going to give him a swift kick in the nuts. With the timing gears lined up dot to dot, drop in the dizzy with the rotor pointing to #1

 

[Ron816]

Sorry I must be an idiot because I'm still not getting it here's what I did I put the no6 at tdc set gears dot to dot now when I drop in distributor do I have to bring no1 to tdc compression before I drop in Dist or just drop it in

 

[eric383]

X2 on what Hemi Rebel posted. If you installed the timing set dot to dot and are unsure of compression stroke on #1 cylinder, just put your finger over spark plug hole #1 and have someone turn the motor over. When you feel pressure building you are on the compression stroke. Make sure the #1 piston is all the way up and drop the dist. in at #1.

 

[miller]

Sorry I must be an idiot because I'm still not getting it here's what I did I put the no6 at tdc set gears dot to dot now when I drop in distributor do I have to bring no1 to tdc compression before I drop in Dist or just drop it in

No...your not an idiot. The way it's done, can be confusing to anybody!

You set the timing chain/gears with #6 at TDC compression stroke...close things up (cover, etc.)...then, going by the timing mark on the balancer, you rotate the crank in the correct direction, until the timing mark comes back up. NOW the engine is at #1 TDC compression stroke. Then your ready to drop in the dizzy (at initial timing degrees).

When you fire it off, you'll know real quick if it's right, or wrong.

 

[440roadrunner]

When the timing chain sprockets are lined up dot to dot, you are on #1 tdc of compression stroke. Not #6.
#1 and #6 pistons move together. Meaning when 1 is all the way up, 6 is too. The cam determines what stroke its on. Dot to dot #1 is on tdc of the compression stroke. #6 is on exhaust.
Drop dizzy in on #1

SORRY GUYS none of the above is TRUE with most timing drive sets

"Dot to dot" is "no 6 ready to fire" not no 1. "Cam dot and crank at 12 o'clock" is no 1 ready to fire

IN BOTH CASES both pistons, no1 and no6 are at TDC.

"Stick your finger in the hole."

There are TWO ways to determine if no1 is ready to fire

1. is to stick your finger in no1 plug hole, crank / bump the engine and feel for compression. As soon as you start to feel good compression, pay attention to the marks. Bring the timing marks up NOT TO TDC but rather "to where you want" the timing to be. On a mild cam, at least 10-12 and maybe even 15 BTDC.

2...Second way is if the valve covers are off, bring the marks up to TDC and inspect no 1 and no 6 valves. One set will both be closed and that cylinder is ready to fire. The other set will both be nearly equally open, one opening, and the other closing. Look carefully!! It's easy to be fooled esp if you have hydraulic lifters that are not oiled up yet.

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No...your not an idiot. The way it's done, can be confusing to anybody!

You set the timing chain/gears with #6 at TDC compression stroke...close things up (cover, etc.)...then, going by the timing mark on the balancer, you rotate the crank in the correct direction, until the timing mark comes back up. NOW the engine is at #1 TDC compression stroke. Then your ready to drop in the dizzy (at initial timing degrees).
When you fire it off, you'll know real quick if it's right, or wrong.

THIS is one way to do it and should be correct.

The thing is I have no idea whether "all" timing drive sets are marked at no6. Maybe they are. You could also set them "dot to dot" and simply drop the dist in with the rotor pointing at no6.

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Sorry I must be an idiot because I'm still not getting it here's what I did I put the no6 at tdc set gears dot to dot now when I drop in distributor do I have to bring no1 to tdc compression before I drop in Dist or just drop it in

On any chain set I've ever seen, No6 is ready to fire at "dot to dot." you can either drop the dist in to fire on 6 rather than one, or rotate the crank 1 turn and then drop the dist in.

 

[Cranky]

The best way to set up a cam is to use a degree wheel. Using the dot method means you will be putting a lot of faith into the cam being ground on the money along with the keyways in the sprockets AND the dots being located in the correct position. I've seen too many engines that were either damaged or didn't run worth a crap because the cam was set using the dot method and it was off and with today's standards and tolerances being what they are, there's no way I'd use the dot method even on a stone stock engine.

 

[Ron816]

Thanks for all the help I brought #1 up to tdc dropped in Dist fired right up set timing to 15btdc runs good but seems to have a lack of power

 

[440roadrunner]

Cool beans

 

[miller]

Thanks for all the help I brought #1 up to tdc dropped in Dist fired right up set timing to 15btdc runs good but seems to have a lack of power

Why 15 degrees? Normally 10-12 degrees BTDC for initial timing.

Too many unknowns. But lack of power...need to check dizzy advance, to see if it's working, right amount, right rate. Should get full advance by 1800-1900ish RPM.
Also could be carb related...or both.