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Now i have the engine running i need to tune and time it, some ideas please.

benno440

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Please do not get to technical with me on this issue, I rebuilt my motor myself but this part of the build always gets me clueless.
I need to time my 505 stroker and tune it which has dual 500cfm eddies.

I set initial at 15 and she starts nicely and idles okay, now I want to set it perfect. I have a msd electronic ignition that has NO vacuum advance.

please tell me easiest way to set my timing, I do have a timing light and vacuum gauge.

also please tell me how to tune my dual quad 500 cfm eddies up
 
Difficult to say what's best for your engine. My low compression 383 with a reasonably hot cam needed 24 degrees initial timing to have a decent idle. It's a further complication that you have dual carbs, I suppose both have idle circuits.

I would alternate between initial timing changes and tuning the idle circuits of the carbs. Maybe start with the carbs and observe what's happening when you carefully turn the idle air mixture screws in to lean out the idle air/fuel mixture (don't know the Edelbrocks but assuming they are somewhat similar to Holleys...). With your vacuum meter connected the vacuum should increase when the setting gets better. Be very light handed if the idle air screws go all the way to the bottom, it's easy to destroy the needle seat and that is the same as destroying the carb!
If that got somewhat better, you could now try to change the initial timing, again a higher vacuum indicates a better setting. And then a little fiddling with the idle air screws again...that ought to get you were you want to be.
 
First make sure your timing is set to where it will run well and not to much total advance. The 15 initial seems to be in the bag so now set the total. Just hook up the light and slowly rev the engine and watch the mark. Or have someone do the revs while you check it (easier). For starters you want to fall between 35 and 38 deg total all in by about 2500 RPM. Also no vacuum leaks or other mechanical problems. You can't tune carbs until every cylinder is spot on and each contributing equally to the engine output. I can't stress this enough. Once that is dialed, and the engine is at operating temp then proceed to the carbs.

Is your intake a dual plane type or a divided single plane? I'm sure it is as that is the most common. Are both carbs hooked so they work together as 1:1? Not progressive like a hemi? I'll talk more about this later but for now you need to get a good basic adjustment.

Start by disconnecting all the linkage except the throttle closing springs. Back off both primary idle stop screws until the throttle blades have seated in the bores. Then run the screws in until they just make the throttle arm move and go one full turn. Both carbs should be set pretty close at this point. You can start the engine and see where the idle is and if it's low or high make equal adjustments on both carbs. For mixture follow a similar procedure. Lightly seat all screws then back off 1.5 turns and see where you are. To rough in the mixture make adjustments in 1/4 turn increments equally on all 4 screws, moving either lean or rich. It helps to keep track of where you are so pay attention! There will be some dancing back and forth while setting ideal idle speed then following up with a mixture tweak, and when I have things pretty close I follow up with a lean drop method on each mixture screw.

That final lean drop mixture tweak is where I zone out everything around me and listen to the rhythm of the engine while making small adjustments and pausing for the result. Lean drop is finding that fine line where the engine RPM just starts to drop then go another 50 RPM lower. There is often a small time delay between making the mixture adjustment and feeling the result. Most hot cammed engines might like to be on the plus side of the lean drop so find that fine line and go maybe 1/8 turn richer. Proceed with each mixture screw, finding that fine line on each one and make the appropriate adjustment.

Once the carbs are set loosen all the linkage lock nuts and make necessary adjustments as you hook it up while not disturbing the carb settings. The linkage should not tell the carbs what to do at idle. Once you have the linkage connected but adjusters still loose, apply force where the cable connects to open the carbs slightly and observe that both primaries are opening EXACTLY AT THE SAME TIME (in a 1:1 application). The slightest movement from the throttle MUST result in EQUAL movement of the primaries, while taking into account all the linkage slop, etc... This will take a few tries.

This is the best I can explain without actually standing over your fender doing it. I have tuned tunnel ram setups, cross rams, six BBL's, Tri powers, individual runner Porsches and VW's, mechanical fuel injected Porsches (air balance only), Honda CBX motorcycles and probably a few others I forgot all using this method. It's not magic; just paying attention and having a good ear for a lean misfire.
 
If its anything like my stroker its gonna want 36* total and the black bushing in the dizzy.
 
First make sure your timing is set to where it will run well and not to much total advance. The 15 initial seems to be in the bag so now set the total. Just hook up the light and slowly rev the engine and watch the mark. Or have someone do the revs while you check it (easier). For starters you want to fall between 35 and 38 deg total all in by about 2500 RPM. Also no vacuum leaks or other mechanical problems. You can't tune carbs until every cylinder is spot on and each contributing equally to the engine output. I can't stress this enough. Once that is dialed, and the engine is at operating temp then proceed to the carbs.

Is your intake a dual plane type or a divided single plane? I'm sure it is as that is the most common. Are both carbs hooked so they work together as 1:1? Not progressive like a hemi? I'll talk more about this later but for now you need to get a good basic adjustment.

Start by disconnecting all the linkage except the throttle closing springs. Back off both primary idle stop screws until the throttle blades have seated in the bores. Then run the screws in until they just make the throttle arm move and go one full turn. Both carbs should be set pretty close at this point. You can start the engine and see where the idle is and if it's low or high make equal adjustments on both carbs. For mixture follow a similar procedure. Lightly seat all screws then back off 1.5 turns and see where you are. To rough in the mixture make adjustments in 1/4 turn increments equally on all 4 screws, moving either lean or rich. It helps to keep track of where you are so pay attention! There will be some dancing back and forth while setting ideal idle speed then following up with a mixture tweak, and when I have things pretty close I follow up with a lean drop method on each mixture screw.

That final lean drop mixture tweak is where I zone out everything around me and listen to the rhythm of the engine while making small adjustments and pausing for the result. Lean drop is finding that fine line where the engine RPM just starts to drop then go another 50 RPM lower. There is often a small time delay between making the mixture adjustment and feeling the result. Most hot cammed engines might like to be on the plus side of the lean drop so find that fine line and go maybe 1/8 turn richer. Proceed with each mixture screw, finding that fine line on each one and make the appropriate adjustment.

Once the carbs are set loosen all the linkage lock nuts and make necessary adjustments as you hook it up while not disturbing the carb settings. The linkage should not tell the carbs what to do at idle. Once you have the linkage connected but adjusters still loose, apply force where the cable connects to open the carbs slightly and observe that both primaries are opening EXACTLY AT THE SAME TIME (in a 1:1 application). The slightest movement from the throttle MUST result in EQUAL movement of the primaries, while taking into account all the linkage slop, etc... This will take a few tries.

This is the best I can explain without actually standing over your fender doing it. I have tuned tunnel ram setups, cross rams, six BBL's, Tri powers, individual runner Porsches and VW's, mechanical fuel injected Porsches (air balance only), Honda CBX motorcycles and probably a few others I forgot all using this method. It's not magic; just paying attention and having a good ear for a lean misfire.

dual plane type, carbs are 1:1 also,
I decied to attempt to time and tune today, advanced the dizzy until it sounded nice and timing was around 37, vacuum was at 12-15. this was after I set the dual quads idle mixture at 2 turns out and idle at 1 1/2 in,but advancing increased revs, so I backed out the idle screws and the idle didn't go down it stayed at 1300rpm, dumbfounded, I then had to vacate the shed as the fuel fumes and header wrap smoke was fu**ing me up.

- - - Updated - - -

First make sure your timing is set to where it will run well and not to much total advance. The 15 initial seems to be in the bag so now set the total. Just hook up the light and slowly rev the engine and watch the mark. Or have someone do the revs while you check it (easier). For starters you want to fall between 35 and 38 deg total all in by about 2500 RPM. Also no vacuum leaks or other mechanical problems. You can't tune carbs until every cylinder is spot on and each contributing equally to the engine output. I can't stress this enough. Once that is dialed, and the engine is at operating temp then proceed to the carbs.

Is your intake a dual plane type or a divided single plane? I'm sure it is as that is the most common. Are both carbs hooked so they work together as 1:1? Not progressive like a hemi? I'll talk more about this later but for now you need to get a good basic adjustment.

Start by disconnecting all the linkage except the throttle closing springs. Back off both primary idle stop screws until the throttle blades have seated in the bores. Then run the screws in until they just make the throttle arm move and go one full turn. Both carbs should be set pretty close at this point. You can start the engine and see where the idle is and if it's low or high make equal adjustments on both carbs. For mixture follow a similar procedure. Lightly seat all screws then back off 1.5 turns and see where you are. To rough in the mixture make adjustments in 1/4 turn increments equally on all 4 screws, moving either lean or rich. It helps to keep track of where you are so pay attention! There will be some dancing back and forth while setting ideal idle speed then following up with a mixture tweak, and when I have things pretty close I follow up with a lean drop method on each mixture screw.

That final lean drop mixture tweak is where I zone out everything around me and listen to the rhythm of the engine while making small adjustments and pausing for the result. Lean drop is finding that fine line where the engine RPM just starts to drop then go another 50 RPM lower. There is often a small time delay between making the mixture adjustment and feeling the result. Most hot cammed engines might like to be on the plus side of the lean drop so find that fine line and go maybe 1/8 turn richer. Proceed with each mixture screw, finding that fine line on each one and make the appropriate adjustment.

Once the carbs are set loosen all the linkage lock nuts and make necessary adjustments as you hook it up while not disturbing the carb settings. The linkage should not tell the carbs what to do at idle. Once you have the linkage connected but adjusters still loose, apply force where the cable connects to open the carbs slightly and observe that both primaries are opening EXACTLY AT THE SAME TIME (in a 1:1 application). The slightest movement from the throttle MUST result in EQUAL movement of the primaries, while taking into account all the linkage slop, etc... This will take a few tries.

This is the best I can explain without actually standing over your fender doing it. I have tuned tunnel ram setups, cross rams, six BBL's, Tri powers, individual runner Porsches and VW's, mechanical fuel injected Porsches (air balance only), Honda CBX motorcycles and probably a few others I forgot all using this method. It's not magic; just paying attention and having a good ear for a lean misfire.

also want to say thanks meep-meep for this very helpful information, you are a true guru. 1 more thing with the idle mixtures if I have them set at 1.5 turns out should I be adjusting out to tune it or in? and is clockwise lean or rich?
 
Screwing them in [clockwise] is going to make it leaner.
 
You will turn the screws either in or out to find the perfect balance where it will be happy. See above for what direction does what.

Is your idle stuck at 1300 with the idle screws all the way backed out? If so then you need to inspect each throttle blade to see if it is seated in it's bore. The secondaries can also contribute to the idle speed but that's not common of the AFB type carb as they usually seat nice and tight. Realistically I can see you only having to open the idle screws about 1/2 turn on each primary to get the speed you want.
 
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