Poly Pulley Problems

[firedome]

After our engine swap ( BOTH the donor car and recipient are a 318 Poly, '64 Dodge 440 model,) I took the main (crank) dual pulley off the donor car with A/C engine and put on the non-A/C dual pulley that came with my car originally. Both cars have PS, 727 everything else the same except the A/C. Now the pulley is out about 1/4" too far, and when I shimmed the water pump pulley out that much so that the belt aligned for the Alternator, Water pump, and dual pulley, the PS pump pulley is now out of alignment with the outer pulley on the dual one... what's going on? It's enough that the belt won't line up, so is there a crank pulley that's about 1/4" thinner (ie the grooves are closer to the block)? Parts guy says the water pump for both A/C and non-A/C are same part number. Sold the old engine with A/C pulley so can't compare or measure it.. any ideas?

 

[furyus63]

firedome,

I removed the A/C and 3-groove crank pulley from my engine and replaced it with a 2-groove crank pulley from my other engine, here are the measurements. From the face of the balancer to the center of the 1st pulley groove 1 1/2", to the center of the 2nd pulley groove 2 3/16".

My engines are '63 but should be the same as your '64. the 1st pulley is (WP/ALT), 2nd pulley is (PS), hope this helps...Nick T.

 

[firedome]

Thanks Nick - now that I think of it, I did the same swap (it was last fall and I got rid of the old engine,should have kept everything but no room) it was a 3 groove pulley on the A/C car, for 2 groove pulley that I put on the good engine. Will measure to see how it compares to yours, 63-64 should be the same...

 

[firedome]

Nick - mine is the same plus 1/16" for each measurement, so pretty close. But when I put the water pump pulley on it's at least 1/4" out of alignment with the dual pulley. No clue. Wish I'd saved the old engine to measure.

 

[furyus63]

firedome...you are putting the WP pulley on with the cone facing inwards, right?

 

[firedome]

For sure - if I did that the fan would be through the radiator! I'm only about 5/16th" off. If the distance from the front face of the water pump pulley attachment (cross-shaped thing) to block-side face of the pump were about 5/16" more all would be fine. I tried to shim the WP pulley out but then the PS pump pulley's groove doesn't line up with the outer groove of the crank pulley... I'm about pulling my hair out (what's left of it)!

 

[AMX364]

On RB engines the water pump housings are different between A/C and non A/C as posted recently. I will bet the Polys have the same issues. About 1/4 inch memory serves correctly.

edit:http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...9516-Water-pump-housing-thickness-observation

 

[furyus63]

firedome, the next thing to do is measure the crank pulley. Since mine is mounted I'll measure from the inside back mounting surface to the balancer to the outside leading edge. If our pulleys are the same, and our balancers are original then you'll have to look at the water pump shaft length. Now here's where the problem may be, you said "if the distance from the front face of the water pump pulley attachment (cross shaped thing) were about 5/16" more all would be fine". My water pump pulley attachment is a (round shaped thing). Tomorrow I will measure the crank pulley...Nick

 

[firedome]

My parts guy swears that both A/C and non-A/C water pumps are the same for a 318 poly, and Rock Auto doesn't differentiate when searching by their menu selection... oh, and all the replacement pumps I've seen have the round fan attachment as in Nicks picture above, but the 2 original pumps I have both are cross shaped. I've ordered a new pump just in case. Next I'll measure the crank pulley as furyus63 suggests.
Roger A.

 

[furyus63]

I measured from the inside of the crank pulley flat against the balancer to the outside edge of the pulley, @ 2 7/16"...Nick

 

[firedome]

Will check it today (car is at another location).

I'm wondering if I need to go back to the 3 groove A/C type pulley and just use the 2 grooves I need. Should have thought of that before I let it go with the old engine!

 

[firedome]

Picked up a new WP, A-1 Cardone, looks identical to the original except that flange is round not cross-shaped. I'm going to try to pick up a 3 groove pulley like the one the engine came with and see what happens.
Roger A.