Racing at different tracks ?

[383man]

Just curious if some of you races have noticed a difference of your reaction times from different tracks ? I believe some tracks use a 4 tenths tree and some use a 5 tenths tree as this is what I have been told. I usually race at Cecil County dragstrip because its close to my brothers house which is good for me because I drive my car to the track. And sometimes I race at Capital raceway but I do notice a difference in my reaction times at the two tracks. My car is basically stock suspension with SS springs so I have to leave early enough to get a good lite. So I found at Cecil I leave as soon as I see any yellow on the third (last) bulb on the tree and will usually hit lites from about .010 best to about .075 (worst) and try to fine tune from there. But everytime I go to Capital and leave like that I redlite so I have to try and see a bit more yellow on the third bulb but that makes it harder to hit a good consisdent lite as if I see just a tad to much yellow I can be at a .100 or worse. On a Pro tree I have to deep stage to get a good lite because with the basically stock leaf spring suspension I have and the cars body movement I cant get much better then a .090 lite unless I deep stage on the Pro tree. So I am just curious if other racers notice this and if so how do you try and adjust to it on no box cars ? Thanks , Ron

 

[theman440]

Lots of factors can contribute to it. Do the tracks have the same altitude? Are your 60ft's the same between tracks? Alot of tracks have gone to LED bulbs for the tree, if one track has LEDs and the other incandescent that could be an issue too.

 

[cbodybob]

The Led bulbs are part of it. The sun in your face is part. However from what I have always been told & I have spoken to several track managers & veteran racers is that the roll out is different. As far as 60 foot I know of one track that is rumored to have a 58 foot timmer. Not a 60 foot. I can tell you my car & everyone else I have talked to says their car 60's real good there. LOL

 

[383man]

The tracks do have about the same altitude. But with my old eng I did 60 ft better at Capital even though I had a faster et at Cecil. I have not got any good passes at Capital with the new eng as the one day I raced there my tires were worn out and it did not hook good. It did run a 10.83 with a 1.54 best 60 there as at Cecil it has gone 10.76 with a 1.50 best 60. But on the old 440 it ran 11.49 with a 1.59 best 60 at Cecil and 11.58 with a 1.57 best 60 at Capital. Depending on the weather I usually do mph about 1 mph better at Cecil. Its is funny as because I seem to redlite all the time at Capital if I leave like I do at Cecil it makes it tuffer to get a good consisdent lite at Capital because trying to see a bit of yellow is tuff to time like that. At Cecil I just go as soon as I see any yellow on the third bulb. Somtimes I actually try counting to myself when the lites start down and it does work sometimes for me. Ron

- - - Updated - - -

I did forget to say that I dont get to race alot either. Lately I am lucky to get out twice a year as Oct 2013 was the last time I was at the track racing. Believe me I wish I could race alot more as I do love it ! Ron

 

[Longroof]

I have been at tracks over a weekend event at a division race or a big $$ bracket race and have the roll out change significantly overnight. And not just me and my car... I remember at Vegas one race where one lane got super tight and there were a lot of red lights in that lane....just a part of this challenging sport. Be ready to adjust the car to the track and the tree. Start with tire psi, front and rear... lots of ways to slow the car down on the tree if you're just a little red... Just have to find a balance between consistency and being able to cut a light... it can be tough.

 

[cbodybob]

Ron do you adjust your front tire air psi from track to track?

 

[383man]

I have been at tracks over a weekend event at a division race or a big $$ bracket race and have the roll out change significantly overnight. And not just me and my car... I remember at Vegas one race where one lane got super tight and there were a lot of red lights in that lane....just a part of this challenging sport. Be ready to adjust the car to the track and the tree. Start with tire psi, front and rear... lots of ways to slow the car down on the tree if you're just a little red... Just have to find a balance between consistency and being able to cut a light... it can be tough.

You are right as most of the time I just run at test and tunes. I really dont get out enough in competition to try and really concentrate on working on good reaction times. But hey last time out I did run in a NSS race and went 2 rounds and had a blast and a ton of fun. And thats what its all about to me.....you know having fun. Course the car worked better then me as it ran 10.76 three passes in a row as I ran a 10.76 on a 10.75 dail in round 2 but lost to my brother as I hit a .078 lite to my brothers .012. And I lost as he ran 9.32 on a 9.29 to my 10.76 on my 10.75. But I honestly feel in racing the lite (reaction time) you cut is the first most important thing in winning and then next is a consisdent car. Ron

 

[Longroof]

Both are equally important. Have to be able to compete at both ends of the track. Have you tried to adjust tire psi both front and rear? Don't go crazy just take a 1/2 lb of air out of the back and it should slow your R/T by a little. Also you can take some timing out, play with launch rpm, loosen the front shocks up...

As far as the lights go if it is a full tree they are only 5 tenths... I have never heard of a 4 tenths full tree. Pro tree is almost always 4 tenths except for Super Street class which is a 5 tenths pro tree.. In bracket racing you need to adjust the car to cut a light where you can repeat and it 8 natural. It may be at the sacrifice of et but the goal is to go rounds not chase et... some cars/combos react better than others to these changes.. sometimes lowering launch rpm makes the car react quicker if it is hooking marginally in the first place.. just have to start adjusting things. But only make one change at a time then you can tell if it worked as intended and by how much.

 

[theman440]

That's pretty crappy if the rollout is different between lanes at the same track! I could see different tracks having variing rollouts though! I race at LVMS regularly and rarely see a difference between lanes - most times both are crappy (lack of prep) especially for the local Bracket series.

 

[dvw]

You need to be able to adjust for tracks differences in roll out along with weather and traction changes. Then learn to drive the stripe. Make sure the car runs the number. Add a little luck and you'll get some wins. 4 weeks ago my 2nd round opponent was .0004 on the tree. The win light in my lane was .007 MOV. Went on to win the race. 2 weeks ago I lost in the 2nd round on a .012 light. The goal is to hit a .01X light. If I'm over .030, I missed the tree. Also lost more than a few by .00X. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I always foot brake. For what it's worth this weekend at Quaker City it will be a .400 full tree. No trans brake, no deep stage. I'll be interesting.
Doug

 

[kdtjb]

I think .500 is a full tree, and .400 is a pro tree (all Amber's light together) at least that's how all tracks I've been to are.

 

[383man]

Ron do you adjust your front tire air psi from track to track?

Actually no not really as I really dont race enough in competition that I have really worried about it. But the next time I go to Capital I might try fooling with the tire pressure. I dont race enough on other tracks that I have really not tried to worry about it alot. But I might try to go to Capital later this year and run in an NSS race and it would be nice to get some decent lites. I mean I am pretty good at racing as years ago I bracket raced a 4-speed 340 Dart but this was in the late 70's and early 80's before they gave you reaction times. I did win my share of races and even back then most bracket cars were auto's. I was pretty good at driving the stripe but I crashed in 1982 and did not go down the track again until 2001. I honestly cant afford to race much as I am living on disability but I wish I could as I love it. If I could race more I would worry more about it but I realize I have to live within my budget. Thats why I built my 63 as a street car as its much cheaper to throw gas in it on the weekend and hit the local cruise. Most of the time when I do race I go to T & T's and just play around with the car. But if I can ever afford to race more I want to try an race at different tracks and work on my reaction times from track to track. Thanks for all the kind replies everyone. Ron

 

[khryslerkid]

I helped out on a "Super comp" team for several years and the driver even had different shade glasses for different times of the day. He was watching for the element to glow. Wouldn't work on the newer digital lights.
You have to find your spot, like staging real light at Capitol, verses staging deep somewhere else. Plus you're not line locking. Are you sharing the brake and gas with one foot? Might be creeping a little at Capital? ( I'm trying to remember if you're four speed or not)
Red lights would be the only thing I would worry about if I were you.You definitely have some consistent times !

 

[383man]

I helped out on a "Super comp" team for several years and the driver even had different shade glasses for different times of the day. He was watching for the element to glow. Wouldn't work on the newer digital lights.
You have to find your spot, like staging real light at Capitol, verses staging deep somewhere else. Plus you're not line locking. Are you sharing the brake and gas with one foot? Might be creeping a little at Capital? ( I'm trying to remember if you're four speed or not)
Red lights would be the only thing I would worry about if I were you.You definitely have some consistent times !

My car is an auto as I foot brake since I really like it and thats about all I can do anyway since it is no electronics on the car. In fact I dont even have a line lock on it which I should get to save the wear on the rear brakes. I usually shallow stage as thats the way I learnt to years ago. I basically have found my sweet spot at Cecil but at Capital I need to work on it. But I do run most of the time at Cecil since I drive to the track. I am also very good at not even looking at the other side of the tree for the other lane as I can block that out real easy. I really prefer to chase cars down if I have my choice as if they redlite you see it and know you have a free pass and a win. Thanks for the kind words. Ron

 

[dvw]

I think .500 is a full tree, and .400 is a pro tree (all Amber's light together) at least that's how all tracks I've been to are.

I've never raced a .400 full tree either. I'll let you know how it works out. Check out the left corner of the flyer. I asked, it's not a miss print
Doug

 

[Budnicks]

just prep at the starting line differences, even differences between the lanes or how you see the tree,
how many street tired cars have gone down the track before you, especially on test & tune days,
or roll out differences/lite settings, between tracks staging lights set-ups, or even lanes {that would suck during race conditions},
even styles of bulbs like others have said,
or the relative air density, time of day even, makes differences in you performances, 60ft times & even launces,
it's more than altitude, it's sun, weather, track temp, prep, cloud cover, humidity/water grains combined etc.

Practice makes perfect,
foot braking isn't exactly the most consistent/scientific way to measure/critique these things either,
human reactions vs the cars response & even light conditions or whether it's sunny or overcast,
all can play havoc on your reaction & 60ft times too, your overall times will be effected if your 60ft times are slower...

 

[dvw]

I've never raced a .400 full tree either. I'll let you know how it works out. Check out the left corner of the flyer. I asked, it's not a miss print
Doug

Very tough to get a read on the .400 full tree. First 4 hits .080,.081,.087,.089. Not good enough had to change the spot I leave on and go deep. Figured it out so I was able to hit around a .040. Had a .004 on Saturday for a bye into the final and won the event, my.040 to his.037. Sunday tried moving the spot on the tree again, had a .020 for a bye into the semis, then I missed it and red lighted. You can adapt but some times it's tough. There were more +.100 lights at this event than I've ever seen. Only a few adapted and could go better than .050.
Doug

 

[383man]

Nice going Doug. I remember about 6 years ago I ran a .400 Pro tree at a type of race where I had to dail on the 1/2 second as I had my old 440 and was running 11.70's that day. And it was stupid as you had to dail before you made any time runs ! I had been 11.49 on a better day but I dailed 12.00 as I knew I was not going 11.50's that day. But on the Pro tree I first shallow staged like I do on a full tree just to see what my SS spring car with stock suspensoin could do. .101 was the best like that as the car just did not react fast enough so I would have to deep stage to get any kind of lite. Ron

 

[cashes65]

Hey Ron another thing to do is always stage the same. Bring the car into the second stage beam until it just flickers the bulbs on. It is really the only true indicator in making sure your rollout will be the same. Run several passes and try to group reaction times together and then you can speed up/slow down the car. Stop by a bracket race where there are dragsters running a box class and pay attention to theyre staging techniques, usually the same every time. P.S. it will also tighten up your cars numbers on the scoreboard as well

 

[383man]

Hey Ron another thing to do is always stage the same. Bring the car into the second stage beam until it just flickers the bulbs on. It is really the only true indicator in making sure your rollout will be the same. Run several passes and try to group reaction times together and then you can speed up/slow down the car. Stop by a bracket race where there are dragsters running a box class and pay attention to theyre staging techniques, usually the same every time. P.S. it will also tighten up your cars numbers on the scoreboard as well

Yea I have always staged the same as on the full tree I always shallow stage. Its just when I leave the way I usually do at the one track Capital I seem to redlite but Cecil where I race more it works great. So I try to see a tad more yellow at Capital and work from there. Cecil is nice because as soon as I see any yellow from the third yellow lite I go and it works nice for me at that track. I dont race at Capital alot but I like to go to the Nostalgic show they have when I can. I just have to get my grove at that track. Thanks for all the replies. Ron