Real vs Clone

[MoparBill]

I have a question on the value of cloned cars vs. the value of 'real' ones. I recently sold my 68 Road Runner which was very nicely done, but was painted the wrong color and was not numbers matching. I am now shopping for my next mopar.
My question- If I had a 68 satellite done exactly the same way, would it be worth a lot less? Would a coronet cloned into a superbee be worth much less than a superbee painted the wrong color and not numbers matching? If so, how much less, both cars being in similar condition?
I'm curious to get other opinions on what hurts value the most when a car isn't original- drivetrain, color, etc. Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

 

[Ron 73]

I would have to say yes. Mine is a 73 clone, came with the hood so i did it. but there not worth near what the real deal is. I could be wrong but don't think so, theres variables like the condition the "clone" is in next to the real deal in poor shape, as you said, but you would be surprised at that also. That RM at the beginning of the VIN is Good news at least from 68 to 74.. Ron

 

[SirSixPack]

I am by no means an expert, as I generally avoid numbers matchers, but as a hobbyist I think how the car is done can have as much to do with the value as the numbers.

Some slant-6 unoptioned cars have sold for tons of cash on EBay (for example) because the builder refit it correctly with a 426 Hemi and tasteful and desireable options. Or another car that originally had a 318 restomodded with a new Hemi, leather interior and custom paint with LED taillights might fetch as much as a "numbers matching" R/T of the same year.

 

[TommyShameless1978]

I'd have to say the real deal is worth more as well, but I disagree with the mindset.

Now, obviously, if you're comparing a mint, original hemi car to a mint, original 318 Satty, it's easy to see why one is worth WAYYY more than the other. But let's say you remove the drive trains. Okay, now let's rust out the hemi car, but leave the Satty completely mint. Somehow, that hemi car is still worth more, even though it would take 50 grand minimum to have a viable vehicle, and the Satty just needs someone to drop an engine in and go have fun.

I think too many people have disappeared up their own pretentious asses when it comes to whether or not a car is an original Super Bee, Road Runner, SS, Shelby, GSX, GTO, on and on and on...we live in a day and age when just about every damn part you could ever need, down to the graphics themselves, are available brand new to make any base model into anything your heart desires. To me, I could care less what a car started life as. I base all value on the condition it is presently in, and the parts it currently has, not whether or not it may have had a Dana rear back in 1971. Hell, that was 40 years ago!

I've also come to discover that it is really only the people who are REALLY deep into the Mopar thing (or other makes, for that matter), that even care about this. Take, for example, my 68. It is a Sport Satellite. It is rocking a 440 / 727, Plum Crazy paint, the giant white Plymouth letters off a Superbird, a 69 lift off 6 pack hood, a purple 69 Meep Meep horn, big fat Cragars, and high back buckets out of a 71. There isn't one thing that is correct about the car, but it is mechanically perfect, completely rust free, and ballsy as hell. And not one person that sees it has ever pointed out the inaccuracies. As far as the world is concerned, it's a bitchin purple Road Runner. People tell me all the time that they used to have one just like it, and how they always loved these cars. Sure, some date code loving Mopar snob would pick it apart and try to tell me it isn't worth anything, but what the hell do I care what he thinks? It's a great running car that is tons of fun and turns lots of heads. Works for me!

 

[696pack]

Buying a car is an emotional thing. There is no telling what someone will pay for something they really fall in love with.

To take the emotion out of it I offer the following advise, however these prices are determined by actual sales and again, there certainly were emotions involved to create these prices.
This comes from a price guide that I subscribe to called Collector Car Market Review.
Both cars are condition #2
$12000. 1968 Sat 2 dr. ht. auto trans w/383-4
$27050. 1968 Road Runner 2 dr. ht. auto trans w 383-4

So, you can figure it from there. These guides base these figures on matching numbers cars which to me would mean painted the color on the tag of the car as well as numbers matching engine but not necessarily trans. Most people don't look that far unless it is a higher end car such as a 6 apck or Hemi car.

 

[MoparBill]

I have never been a stickler for numbers matching everything. I have always been a fan of putting a healthy 440 in a clean body regardless of what it was born with. As I am now shopping for my next Mopar, I am wondering on values of road runners with incorrect drivetrains vs satellites built the same way.

 

[Deleted member 214]

You can take a Road Runner with incorrect paint and non-matching motor, etc. and fix the errors (best you can do with a missing original motor is find one with the correct date code) and make it better, but nothing you can do to a Satellite can make it a Road Runner. That said, a clone can give you a lot more bang for the buck than a real deal car and also make you less nervous driving it. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks - some people live and die by absolute correctness, others just want a nice ride.

 

[Propwash]

Either way, they're both great to see still going down the road..Like the others said, most wouldn't be able to identify if it wasn't the real deal. Hands down the real thing goes for more money in most cases (at the same condition). Even at a resto-mod/pro-touring level, If the same amount of money was spent on both, the real McCoy would be worth more. Greg is right, you'll get more bang for you buck, but at your initial purchase of the car. After that, all parts and add on's are pretty much going to cost the same.

It's actually pretty easy math..Say you had a 70' Roadrunner and a 318 70' Belvedere, RR engine is gone. Then you drop a 440 six pack in both. Take a wild guess which is worth more..To add to that, you most likely had to upgrade your suspension/brakes/rear on the belvy just so it would handle like the Roadrunner.

To answer you question: From what i've seen for sale over the years on the market, a roadrunner that doesn't have a matching drivetrain but a period correct motor or some sort of decent 383/440, typically goes for more than a Satellite-Tribute in the same condition.

Just my 2 cents..........Good luck what ever way you go.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Last I heard they are not making these cars anymore so what's left is all we have. The factory hi-po stuff got driven hard and most of them got crashed. I have heard stories of guys back in the 70's pulling HEMI's out of anything available (including a 66 Coronet convertible I heard about from one guy) and selling the engine to some racer and scrapping the perfect rust free body. All this goes on while dad's 318 Satellite is completely off the performance seeking radar and continues to get him to work and back and get us kids to school and mom to the hair dresser. What we are left with are these survivor rolling stock 4 doors, wagons and the occasional 2 dr that someone will make a clone out of. If I were to buy a 318 Belvedere with a HEMI it would be based on parts value alone but a real car is known throughout the world for what it is. I will always seek out the real deal RR, R/T, etc.. if that's what I'm looking for but will be happy to pass if it needs more money thrown at it then it's worth. And speaking of the 318 Satty or slant 6 Dart, I would love to see more of them all cleaned up with the 318 or 6 still in them for a change!! Clones are proof that people want the real cars but for whatever reason will not spend the money for the real deal. It all boils down to what the buyer wants in a car but in the end we are all car guys keeping our relics of automotive history on the road.

 

[Red63440]

I have gone both ways in the past, spents tons of money searching for "Correct" parts and paying the big dealers the huge prices they want for those correct parts. In the end the average person looking for a car doesn't see all those correct parts and many times could care less that it took you years to do it "Right".
In todays market with the high dollar original cars bringing in high 5 or 6 digit prices the person wanting to be a member of any auto group has no choice other than cloning a car based on his or her choice and available cash. If its an investment then by all means look for a matching numbers car but if its for enjoyment and to actually drive and enjoy then matching numbers means very little.
I am not saying that those who have an original matching numbers car don't have something to be proud of but they are becoming harder to find and even harder to document. I say buy what you want, modify it the way you want or leave it stock. Each of us have our own idea as to what we want and how we want to use it. When I go to a local show I enjoy seeing the collection of hard work, dedication and amount of money spent on the cars and I can appreciate it all.

 

[MoparBill]

Some very good comments here, thanks for the insight. I guess it's gonna boil down to my budget, my goals, and what's available in the near future. I will be at Carlisle for the Chrysler show and I'll see what's available there. I live in Western New York so it's very unusual to find a rust free project locally.
Reds63440- I'm south of Buffalo so I'm not far from you at all.

 

[BuckNeccid]

A real car is a real car, and is always going to be worth more, but what it boils down to in the end is that if a clone/tribute is done correctly, the ONLY difference between it and a real car is a couple of letters/ numbers on the VIN tag. Hard to read that VIN tag at speed, but easy to enjoy the ride. How much do you want to spend to be happy or how much do you want to spend to make numbers people happy?

 

[696pack]

Something else I left out in all of this. If you have one of the two cars I listed in the example above with price guide values and you total it having full coverage insurance on it, where do you think the insurance companies go to for values for pay off? That's right, to these guides and recent sales of similar cars. Those recent sales are the very info that these guides collect for their publications.

So, when it is all said and done if you crash your car beyond reasonable economic repair and get reimburst from the insurance company it is easy to see which cars are worth more.