Show your factory "quality"

[smyythe68]

I know most cars are put together well but, I think this guy had a few to many on the line. Show your pics or share what you have found.

 

[Budnicks]

Damn that's pretty bad... It looks like an, early Monday morning or late Friday afternoon car, how would that get by quality control ??... That's an easily accesseble place to weld, I wonder what the areas that are hard to get to, look like ??... Have you looked over the whole car, to see were else that guy may have welded on the car ??... Hope he didn't work there very long...

 

[Ron 73]

Ive never seen anything from the factory look that bad...

 

[Propwash]

Factory "peanut butter welding" shock crossmember 69' roadrunner

 

[TBONE]

This is a pic of a vin tag rivet end I found in the windshield channel of my 68 Sport Satellite. They both were there under the sealer!

 

[67Charger]

Here is (was) the spring perch of my '67 Charger. Compare the depth of the gouge to the width of the perch material and remember the perch is as thick or thicker than the housing material. I'm surprised it didn't leak. I was running 10's on that.

 

[scotts74birds]

I'm sad to say that in my plant, production CONSTANTLY brings quality issues to managements attention. Their response? "Ship It!" Yet production is held responsible for quality? [mis]Management only cares about numbers! "We make crap! But we make ALOT of it!" is managements motto! I wish Sergio would talk to the rank-and-file at my plant. The halls would run RED with the blood of incompetent management! None of us come to work everyday to do a BAD job, we CARE because our futures depend on it! Middle management knows they can just coast to another job where they can f#$% it up again.

 

[Al K]

I'm sad to say that in my plant, production CONSTANTLY brings quality issues to managements attention. Their response? "Ship It!" Yet production is held responsible for quality? [mis]Management only cares about numbers! "We make crap! But we make ALOT of it!" is managements motto! I wish Sergio would talk to the rank-and-file at my plant. The halls would run RED with the blood of incompetent management! None of us come to work everyday to do a BAD job, we CARE because our futures depend on it! Middle management knows they can just coast to another job where they can f#$% it up again.

Guys;Scott speaks the truth!!! I've got almost 35 years in at The General,and it's all about quantity,NOT quality! I'm a quality inspector;mostly checking out sheetmetal for surface and other flaws. Suffice to say,I often "asked" to look the other way when some surface defects are found because 1)"...well,the last shift ran like that...";2)"There's a truck waiting at the dock...";3)"...we're going to run it,but keep an eye on it...". ******* frustrating when it's my job on the line!

Another thing: when that line's moving,you may not have the freakin' time to do the job properly. What day of the week,or what time of day doesn't matter. That first weld(?) pictured is bloody scary;but I can imagine the welder running out of rod,and trying to get another one in place to complete the task. In the meantime,that car is down the line to next station. That **** happens more often than you'd think. If you haven't done it(I have-at least 20 years of my time has been spent on lines),please don't pass judgment. Are there fuckups and fuckoffs? Yup;but they don't last long nowadays. There's always been a bit of a "self-policing" policy in the shop floor;if you screw up and endanger your job,it's one thing. Screw up and endanger someone else's job,and you could be the guest of honor at a "sack" party. I've seen it happen;ain't pretty...

Let's not turn this into a pissin' match;nobody effin' wins. We've seen it before.

 

[Propwash]

I agree with you guys and I don't Scott and Al, and believe me I'm not trying to start a pissing match being I respect both your opinions. I put myself in your shoe's and think about how much of you and your family's lives and time are invested in your careers. It puts a roof over your head and food on the table. To put a foot down and question management quite possibly may be a quick walk out the door. Looking from the outside in, it seems like almost a "it is what it is" mentality, that would be a hopeless uphill battle. Obviously the same issue that plague's a lot of businesses and is alive and well in the automotive industry.

What I don't quite get is these problems or lack of quality issues probably came to light in one way or another just as soon as you started working there years ago. If they are truely against your beliefs, why did you not walk away from them back then before investing a career and now live a life with products you're building for the american public you don't believe in, but still you're here complaining about them? Maybe you thought things would change or could get to a position where you could make that changes for the better? Wife's pregnant, kids needs cloths for school...who knows.

Being on the other end of the spectrum as a consumer and a working man myself, one half of me does not give condolences. I work in the project engineering and inspection arena in the industrial and military world. Being in a quality type position myself, I understand the amount of resposibility involved, but here's the difference.... If I decided to let a subpar weld joint go on a high pressure steam line to a boiler because the plant wants their boiler back in production, people could easily die if it failed. If I decided to let a lot of crossmember castings go that failed x-ray for gas hole porosity, but the DOD needs them Now on some Bradley's over in the middle east, people could die. If I signed off cracks on a dryer cans on a spinning paper machine because that's how they did it in the past, people could die.

I fly a plane three days a week, If I rushed my preflight and missed a missing nut and cotter key off the elevator linkage just because my buddy wanted to be across state in a hurry, us in the plane and people on the ground could die..............It's all relative. Why should the mentality be any different if you're building machines that transport husbands, wives and their family's down our busy roads and highways?

I've been in plenty of screaming matches with production engineers, officers, shop foreman and plant managers over quality over production. Even been walked off site because I would not "sign off" on something I didn't have complete faith in. That's the side of me that doesn't agree with you because it is a state of mind, a morale that drives me to do what I do when I walk into work everyday.

Like I said, I do respect both your point of views and have tried to look at things from your side of the fence. One one side, you have so much invested, resistance would be hopeless, its been this way forever. It would be truely hard for me the phathom all the variables involved with you life/career unless I actually lived it...From my side of the fence, put your foot down and stand up for what you believe in! If you do take pride in your work, don't let someone else dictate your own work ethic. At the end of the day you're the one that's gotta look in the mirror.

Again, I agree with you and I don't. I'm not trying to start a pissing match and I hope I didn't come off like I was trying to degrade or bash anyone, that was honestly not my intension. This is just the way I see it from the outside looking in.

Have a good night.

 

[Al K]

Propwash;you speak wise words. There's many facets to a story.

I do not have the "power" to stop production,even though,when I took the job,I was told I did. First time I shut a line down for (very obvious) flaws,I was threatened with disciplinary action and termination by my supervisor,the General Foreman and even the Plant Manager. I felt I was in the right. Down the road,it happened again,I stopped the line,and received balance of the shift and two days off. Helluva motivation to do the job right,eh? After that,I just informed the appropriate parties of the issues,and continued inspecting the parts I pulled off the line. Bad parts rolled off the line,and when the assembly plant rejected them,guess who heard about it? Yup,yours truly. See the contradiction? I see it every day.

Production work is a very different breed of animal;based on output,not quality. It's a "get as many parts/pieces/cars off the line as possible;we'll worry about the quality later..." mentality. A management mentality,that starts with the line foremen and goes to the top. When an unknowing customer(not aware of what really goes on in a production plant) encounters a quality issue with their vehicle,the dealer will usually state "Those damn line workers don't give a damn about quality" or some other bullshit. The customer will nod their head and agree,without ever knowing the true story.

I can't wait to retire;my freakin' head is about to explode! Prop;you seem to understand,even though your work is rather different than mine. And,no,I don't feel you're encouraging this to become a pissin' match. If I felt that,I'd fire up another pot of coffee for ammo!

Back to our regularly scheduled programming...I'd better crawl under Sabrina and see what other surprises she has for me along these lines...

 

[Propwash]

Thanks for the feedback AL. Reading your earlier post, I figured senario's like the one's you just pointed out play out in your day to day efforts at work. It's honestly sad to read about. It goes to show how the shift in american craftsmanship and quality has been dwindled over the decades by a major factor; greed. When it all boils down to it, investors want more and more production, thus money. Managment wants bonus's and promotions based off higher production, thus greed. And then there is the hard working folks like you left in the dust, trying to pay the bills and do a good job but you're shackled by their puppet strings of greed and vanity.

That is one hell of a tough place to be in and I sure would not want to be in your shoe's my friend. A fella gets to a point where 10-20 years go by and then its become a trap, because so much time and effort has been invested as well as now your world revolves around a career. That's the side I agree with on your guys end. I'm sorry to see good people like you and Scott be tied down in a situation like that. Myself I would never allow my self to be put in such a senario, but like you said there is many facets, thus the chess pieces of my career may be a bit easier to move around the board.

Much blessings on a swift and well needed retirement Al and I appreciate your input as well as your effort to keep american jobs right here on this side of the pond.

 

[Al K]

Prop;if I could have been able to get back on Skilled Trades(where I worked from 1989-2000) in an Experimental capacity again,I would have stayed until the next contract,maybe longer. Loved that job. It may have meant a 70+ mile drive to the GM Tech Center(say it with me DetMatt:"WHAT F@#$%&* FUN!!! I-75 as a parking lot is FUN!!!:headbang which held little appeal. Thanks for the kind words. -Al

 

[pabster]

This is a fascinating thread for those of us who have never worked the factory floor. I did drive transit for years and was responsible for checking my coach before heading out of the base, but luckily I wasn't disciplined in any way if I found a problem that needed fixing. The route would run late if the shop guys had to fix something or get me another bus, but safety was the priority in theory and in practice.

Thanks to all you out there that made these vehicles come to life.

 

[Budnicks]

1st off I don't want to start a war or pissing contest either, this is an observation from the outside, from some one who worked for a large dealership group 125 dealerships on the west coast mostly, for many, many years, I wasn't a tech I was a Facility Manager & consultant, I knew/know & worked along side of many or the great techs & service writers & managers, also parts dept. guys & parts managers, also sales & finance people & general management, & detail dept. guys would many times save the day, they all had to deal with the irate customers, that had quality control issues on their beloved cars {you know how people, get attached to their cars}, sometimes or many cases $50k+ vehicles {a substantial investment}, warranty issues are a big deal at all dealerships, they make only 50% of the shop rate, less time to do the repairs & cost on the parts needed, the parts dept.ends up eating shipping & delivery costs, to do the warranty or quality control issue repairs, that could have been caught, many times on the line or in a quality control inspection, before it ever left the plant/***. line... It's just passing the buck it seems to the end person, the most important one the buyer, then the Salesmen sometime trying to sell a flawed product to a customer that want's perfection for their hard earned dollars {it's tough out there in automotive sales, nowadays}, then the service writer, dealership tech, detail tech. & parts dept., that ultimately end up having to deal with the losses & irate customers.... Just out of curiosity, Al K & Scott you are Auto Workers Union Employees, at the automotive plants/***. lines, correct ?, Can you take any of the quality or lack there of, issues or problems, that are on the floor/line or were ever, to your Unions Shop Steward or Union Rep. ?, Or is your Union Rep/Steward part of the problems ?, Bowing down to management, not standing up for the Union employees, they are suppose to represent & doing the very job that they are being paid, very good Union Wages & Benefits for... What are your Union Dues going for ?, If your Union won't back you up, when your obviously in the right... Sorry I'm done with my rant... Most people don't know the whole auto industry probably & most never will, there are many facets to the automotive industry, much, much more that just the assembly line... We all can learn something here it seems... There is a great saying in the industry "$hit flows downhill", I just hope your not at the bottom, collecting it...