This is what I am Starting to find in the First Motor...1966 Ply Sat Project

[cr8crshr]

As a few here on FBBO know I have been having a nightmare with the first motor for my 1966 Ply Sat project. I picked up a newer short block...1970 block/original is a 1965 block...a few weeks back and yesterday started the swap out. Some of the things I am finding upon tear down just makes me :angryfire: as to what the builder I contracted with did to me. Here are a few pics of what a motor with less than 2 hours run time has going on inside of it. There will be more as I get deeper in to it...The first series of pics is after removal of the H2O Pump Housing. This is supposed to be a fairly new...less than 2hours total run time...but the rust and corrosion looks like 40 year old if not a day. Notice on the H2O Pump Impeller, that there is corrosion under the blades that has some what of a white look to it. It flakes off when you rub a finger over it. The Thermostat housing has the same thing going on where the T-stat goes. The H2O pump is a brand new Aluminum unit but the inside looks like it is ancient. Finally the Oil Slinger...last 2 pics. When I removed the timing chain cover to remove the timing chain, gear sprockets and Cam, the Oil Slinger was riding on the timing chain resulting in the scoring of it in the pics. After I removed it from the crank shaft, my Brother who is helping noticed that the Slinger had been "tweeked" and looked to be crushed as though something heavy had been placed upon it. After comparing this one with the new one for the new block, there is a vast difference in them. No damage to the timing chain...Double roller...after a complete inspection using 10x-18mm power Loop Monocle. Could the Oil Slinger be the cause of the knocking sound I was hearing. If I hadn't mentioned it early in my posts, I am disassembling the first 383 and swapping over to the second 383 the entire top half. Lower half of the new one has been checked and measured for tolerances as per the FSM and we are good to go there. After the new motor is complete, I will be tearing down the lower half of the first motor to see what else was done to cause all these issues in the first place. I am not looking forward to inspecting the H2O jackets in the first block but I bet dollars to doughnuts that there will be rust and corrosion there as well. The subject of "Salt in the Block" came up during our Bench Racing and Cocktail talk with my Brother afterwards yesterday but at this point I just don't know. The other topic was spun rod or rod knock in the bottom end that might be the cause of the knocking sound I have been experiencing. But I will not know until I can tear it down. Bottom line for me is if this swap and fire up of the new 383 doesn't fix the issues I have had with this build then one sweet 1966 Plymouth Satellite and tons of parts is going to be for sale. Just hope it does not come to that because after 8 and 1/2 years on this project I would like to see it running and enjoy the fruits of my Labors. But at 64 years young, it is getting harder and harder to crawl around on the garage floor on my back and twisting wrenches...But for now we will continue on. Stay tuned for more updates and pics...cr8crshr/Tuck

 

[69a100]

To bad that slinger doesn't look like that all the way around, then there'd be no knock? :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:

 

[Budnicks]

cr8crusher for sitting allot, not having water circulating, the WP rust doesn't look out of the norm, just surface rust residue from the block &/or radiator... how long has it been sitting ??, sitting a long time will create allot of rust, that wouldn't be "as bad" if it was ran every so often at least, had antifreeze or conditioner & properly flushed... Did you put 50/50 water & antifreeze ??, or any additives/conditioners in the radiator maybe ??, is it an aluminum radiator or brass/steel ??, was the block flushed, hot tanked & properly cleaned before it was re-assembled ??, cast iron is very prone to rusting, especially sitting for long periods of time... The oil slinger was rubbing for sure, not enough clearance between the double roller & the oil slinger, probably some metal shavings, thru out the whole engine & in the filter @ a minimum... When you get a chance, cut open the oil filter & see what's in it... You should make damn sure the lifters are thoroughly flushed & the heads, camshaft, oil pump & pick up, or every other part that goes on the new Short Block, is spotlessly clean/flushed... It could be a spun bearing or bad bearing, bad wrist pin or really loose clearances, rod bolt bad &/or stretched too much, making noises... Could be a bad main bearing or wrong clearances, too much endplay thrust clearances, could be a cracked flex-plate or loose flex-plate or not seated properly flex-plate &/or converter, or even something else in the tranny, too... I'm not trying to scare you... But it's really hard to tell with out measuring & seeing all the parts, allot of different scenarios could be happening, even a combination of things... I wonder if the original builder even resized the rods properly &/or used new/better rod bolts & hardware... I don't remember all the specifics of your old build... But, It still could be a lifter rocker arm noise, check all the valve-train really good, flush out the rocker shafts, make sure you don't have any weird wear spots or lack of oiling to either the rockers &/or the pushrods, if you have adjustable rockers you shouldn't have no more than 3 full threads max sticking out the bottom of the rockers or it will oil starve the push rod cup & balls on the rocker adjusters, usually means too short of push-rods, check them all for metal to metal wear.... what does the timing chain & lower gear look like ??... Good luck Tuck, I'm sure your probably no doubt, at your wits end & frustrated as hell... I hope you have much better luck with the new short block... Please, don't overlook anything, don't take any part for granted, if you think it is at all questionable, don't take the chance, especially if your going to re-use stuff....

 

[cr8crshr]

Budnicks...Thanks for the insight and thoughtful woods. Appreciate it. I won't be taking anything for granted on the 2nd motor build. Radiator is an Aluminum one and no the first motor didn't sit along time without running it. The motor did run but with that knocking that wouldn't quit, I figured why not do it all over with a different block. As to coolant...The first fire up I had Antifreeze @ 50/50 mixture. When the rear main seal let go, and I pulled the motor to fix it I drained it and at that time, the liquid looked like old rusty orange antifreeze, The bucket I drained it into after the Antifreeze settled down had a slimy, gritty residue to it. Since that first motor pull I have been using H2O with an additive to the coolant so as if I had to drain again. it would only be H2O. Each time I drained the H2O looked like rusty slimy grit in the bucket. By the way, the heater core is not in play as I bi-passed it from the firewall and blocked off the ports for the heater hoses at the H2O pump. In the pics if you were to run a finger over the inlet/outlet ports of the H2O pump you could feel the rusty junk. In addition, there has been some spillage on the garage and driveway concrete that has stained it rusty brown. Believe me when I tell you that every part I am taking off the 1st motor to put on the 2nd is checked, double checked, cleaned and cleaned again, measured and measured again. This 2nd motor build if it doesn't work out this time will be because of me and not someone else I relied upon. I do have a good feeling about the 2nd block and motor build. I just won't know until I try and fire it up...

 

[Budnicks]

You sound like your a man with a plan... if you find anything weird post it up, I'm sure, we all will try to help as much as possible... more eyes on something, the better sometimes, I still learn something new everyday...LOL...

 

[cr8crshr]

Thanks...Just as a side note I have a post under the engine forum concerning lifter bores. Check it out and any insight will help too....cr8crshr/Tuck

 

[Meep-Meep]

That water pump does appear to be a marine unit if you know what I mean. Especially on an engine with such little time. Did you have anifreeze? Seems obvious to have a 50/50 mix but sometimes on a new engine running straight water is not a bad idea in case you find a gusher. Then after any leaks are solved put the 50/50 mix in.

The oil slinger will not always fit with a double roller chain and this is an oversight of the builder. If one concentrates on every move during an assembly things like this can be prevented. The result of this oversight will produce some extra metal floating around but I don't think you would get a knock sound from that. Maybe some other sound but what I know to be a knock I don't think so.

I sure hope your problems are over this time around.