To add a Supercharger or not to???

[Garner7555]

As the title states, I have had the itch to add a supercharger for the past several months. I'm sure most everyone can relate to wanting more power. Below I will list my current setup that has about 1200 miles on it.

-440 block with factory steel crank and rods bored 0.030" with 2355 pistons
-The pistons sit 0.018" down in the hole and the valve reliefs account for 7cc dish
-I have sidewinder heads that advertise a 84cc chamber http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/Sidewinder.html
-My current head gaskets are 0.040"
All of this equates to 9.7:1 compression ratio and 0.058" quench if the calculators are correct.

I already have a different EFI setup ready to install that is capable of tuning with boost (this is a lot of why I'm looking at adding a supercharger) https://www.edelbrock.com/pro-flo-4...ysler-rb-413-426-440-engines-black-35923.html
This setup is capable of supporting 975 HP with larger injectors and boost. I am not looking to make anywhere near that much power, I just wanted to let people know about this option.
I really like the Edelbrock tuning software from the small amount of looking I have done. For example, it gives you the ability to retard the timing based on the psi of boost.

Now to the real question, my compression is a little high for a boosted application. What I am considering is running my current setup, other than a boost friendly cam change, and only running 3-5 psi of boost. Do you think this is a possibility to work well? I know that I will have to use an intercooler with the multi-port fuel injection. Is anyone on here running boost on a setup remotely close to mine?

My goal would be to make 500 -550 hp at the flywheel. With a better bottom end and lower compression ratio I could bump the boost levels up and make lots more power, but I don't really want to go that route currently.


supercharger setup - http://www.torqstorm.com/kits_single_big-block-mopar.html
I really like that they offer this as a kit with all accessories and serpentine belt setup that will fit behind the supercharger belt setup. I have already been wanting to swap to serpentine belt setup.
I also like that this runs in it's own oil and doesn't use engine oil.

 

[Garner7555]

Anyone?

 

[mopar 3 B]

There are cheaper ways to get to that power level and I don't think 3 to 5 psi boost would be worth the dollars spent.

 

[watermelon]

ive looked at the torqstorm for a while now too

to me it looks like that belt drive on the dampener would not fit my 66 coronet 440cu as well other fitment like the alternator. my other question is can the assembly of this kit be performed with the engine in the car.

if im yanking the engine then that means im swapping it for something dynoed and broken in already making the power


watermelon

 

[70chall440]

I've never had a supercharger on anything, so there is that. But I did help a buddy put one onto a 01 Viper. He spent a crap load of time and money (~$10k) to gain around 100HP; he really couldn't go a lot more than that (~6psi) because the 01's had cast pistons. I looked at putting one on my 10 Challenger RT as well but again, the cost is not worth the gain in power especially when you couple that with the amount of effort and potential effect on other systems (new clutch, new half shafts, etc.)

Now if you are looking for the "wow" factor and just because you want one, then do it.

 

[Mike67]

Just curious what do you think you are making now? What cam do you have?

 

[rolling_Thunder]

Pretty much - unless you need a supercharger for excessive power they are just eye candy... If you're ok with that then so be it. I'm putting a roots on my current 440 build mostly for looks - it'll run well but if I was looking for more power I would run a turbo or twin screw design.

500-550hp can be had with a mild 440 build. 3-5psi isnt worth the thousands of dollars you'll spend (my opinion)

 

[Curiousyellow71]

I have a friend that was considering something similiar. He is running stock rods but wanted more power. The nice thing about superchargers is you dont lose drivability. We put a turbo on a car years ago...and just the sound was addicting. At 9.7 there is some room for boost, it is also a good fit for alcohol injection. I am not really aware of one cam or another more suitable for belt driven supercharging. Imo...Belt driven chargers should respond to cam changes in a similiar way as a NA engine..it is different then choosing a turbocharging cam. The boost will compensate a lot for the cam size.
I would not be afraid to do 600hp with your short block...just keep the rpms down. Hopefully you at least have arp rod bolts. To only do 500hp I dont see being worth it. There are a bunch of upgrades that will get you to 500hp that are easier on the wallet then the supercharger. You can build a boosted motor that has great driving manners but will make big power. Since your fuel system can handle it that is a big plus. Down the road put some h beam rods in and cometic head gaskets, a girdle and some different pulleys and go for it.

 

[dvw]

E85 and run it. 9.7 with E85 works well. We run turbo non intercooler at 9.6-1. Been as high as 21psi. Roots blower probably wouldnt be happy at 21 but 10-12psi would most likely work pretty easy. The other think mentioned was water/meth injector which definitely helps. As far as eye candy? I have a roots boosted iron headed 340 with .550 cam. 3885 race weight. 11.0@122 in street trim.
Doug

 

[Badvert65]

I have an 8-71 supercharger ready to put on a fresh 440 build. I have a set of Stealth heads and I am considering a stroker kit with around 9-9.5 compression. With aluminum heads, you are supposed to be able to safely run about a point or so higher compression.
What's the worst that can happen?

 

[coloradodave]

I have an 8-71 supercharger ready to put on a fresh 440 build. I have a set of Stealth heads and I am considering a stroker kit with around 9-9.5 compression. With aluminum heads, you are supposed to be able to safely run about a point or so higher compression.
What's the worst that can happen?

The worst that can happen is that they'll make you sweep up the top end after you scatter your parts all over it...lol. The one point higher compression with aluminum heads doesn't apply with boost. If you limit it to 5 lbs. boost or so, and take it easy on the engine, you'll be fine at that compression ratio, but that takes all the fun out of it....Drop the compression and up the boost!!! IMHO.

 

[dvw]

If you are building a boost motor buy dedicated pistons. Get a forging with a thick crown (.225"+), the rings at least .250" down, and the proper compression. Or just go buy a generic 9.5-1 "kit" for a normally aspirated engine. Then when it fails (and it will unless you only make 5 psi wimpy boost). Then you can buy new pistons and rings and do it all over again. I've had boosted stuff on the street/mild strip since 1985. Take advantage of my failures. You'll save money, work, and time.
Doug

 

[Garner7555]

Thanks for the replies everyone. It is good to hear different opinions. I may very well decide not to run boost, it's just something that I am considering.

 

[Garner7555]

Just curious what do you think you are making now? What cam do you have?

I am guessing, but I would say somewhere between 400 - 450. I will post my cam below. It is a Lunati part # 10230703 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10230703

 

[dvw]

If you are building a boost motor buy dedicated pistons. Get a forging with a thick crown (.225"+), the rings at least .250" down, and the proper compression. Or just go buy a generic 9.5-1 "kit" for a normally aspirated engine. Then when it fails (and it will unless you only make 5 psi wimpy boost). Then you can buy new pistons and rings and do it all over again. I've had boosted stuff on the street/mild strip since 1985. Take advantage of my failures. You'll save money, work, and time.
Doug

 

[Mike67]

I am guessing, but I would say somewhere between 400 - 450. I will post my cam below. It is a Lunati part # 10230703 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10230703

Dont know your intake, and flow numbers off of those heads, just goofing around with the info provided and using an online calculator which is a little more than a guess, but it looks like your pretty close to that 500 mark, I came up with 476 using this
https://www.gofastmath.com/Horsepower_Calculators/Horsepower_Calculator.
Is the blower more of a shock and awe? Or is it a power goal???

 

[Garner7555]

Dont know your intake, and flow numbers off of those heads, just goofing around with the info provided and using an online calculator which is a little more than a guess, but it looks like your pretty close to that 500 mark, I came up with 476 using this
https://www.gofastmath.com/Horsepower_Calculators/Horsepower_Calculator.
Is the blower more of a shock and awe? Or is it a power goal???

It isn't really about looks for me, it's when I hold it to the floor on an on ramp from 20-70 mph I'm not as impressed as I want to be. I have gotten spoiled to quick acceleration now days (even my 8000lb diesel pickup truck is quick with well over 1000 ft lbs of torque). I'm not wanting to make a 750hp beast that isn't street friendly because I love to drive the car regularly. I am wanting a little more power than what I currently have.

I had Todd at Marsh Performance to bowl blend the heads before shipping them to me. They flow 290-293 cfm at .500 lift. I am currently running a RPM intake with a FiTech unit on top. I have the new Edelbrock EFI to install that is multi port rather than throttle body EFI. I hope it is a little better match and might gain me a few HP over my current setup.

You guys have me thinking maybe I should look into other options to gain some more power. What would be your suggestions? Thanks

 

[Mike67]

It isn't really about looks for me, it's when I hold it to the floor on an on ramp from 20-70 mph I'm not as impressed as I want to be. I have gotten spoiled to quick acceleration now days (even my 8000lb diesel pickup truck is quick with well over 1000 ft lbs of torque). I'm not wanting to make a 750hp beast that isn't street friendly because I love to drive the car regularly. I am wanting a little more power than what I currently have.

I had Todd at Marsh Performance to bowl blend the heads before shipping them to me. They flow 290-293 cfm at .500 lift. I am currently running a RPM intake with a FiTech unit on top. I have the new Edelbrock EFI to install that is multi port rather than throttle body EFI. I hope it is a little better match and might gain me a few HP over my current setup.

You guys have me thinking maybe I should look into other options to gain some more power. What would be your suggestions? Thanks

Im not a good reference to recomend what you should do or how to go about it. Just think that what you have might need a little tweaking to get you where you want to be.
I had spoken to Todd and was just about to pull the trigger on those exact heads w/ the same work, I just happened across a set of Eddys that were too good of a deal to pass on. He was very helpful and provided a lot of info.
Personally I would look at the gearing you have now. Im curious what gear you are running, if you want that "quickness" feel..gears would certainly make the most economical and seat of the pants type improvement. Maybe a cam swap to utilize more of the heads flow capabilities. Like I said earlier youre making pretty good power.
This was my build and I still have the cam kit, and it switched directions (cam) as I found a roller That is just a little bigger. It made 537/581 w/ XE275HL. That was on an old motor that they did nothing to. Im expecting a little more since mine is fresh.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopar-440-update/

 

[Garner7555]

I used the horsepower calculator that you posted and came up with 458HP at 4961 RPM. (Dynamic compression 8.27:1)

This may actually be in the ballpark of what I actually make. Swapping to this single plane style intake should help it on the top in a fair amount. https://www.edelbrock.com/pro-flo-4...ysler-rb-413-426-440-engines-black-35923.html

 

[Mike67]

Can the injectors be upgraded and how many cfm can it flow?
I have the Terminator, which should easily support what Im doing...but the injectors can be upgraded and support 1100 according to Holley as well as having free HP ECU upgrade. Dont know if Ill ever venture in to the deep end of that pool though...