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unleaded heads

bigaadams

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I have recently acquired a J stamped (1973) 440 engine. I have not done anything to the engine in respect of teardown or even starting it. My general question to the forum is, can you tell if the heads were upgraded to hardened seats just by looking once the head is removed? do they have an identifying feature for the casual eye to discern? I have spent most of my hobby time with cars with the earlier 40's-50's Mopars, need to come up to speed on the later stuff, am on a learning curve..thanks for the time to respond..
 
so casting -452 is the 76-78 factory spec'ed unleaded heads...that is cool....and I do appreciate your quick response. I was however wondering if the heads were early castings say, -346...and the PO had them changed to hardened seats..can one glance at these and know for sure they are hardened seats for unleaded fuels. Are the seats identifiable by a concentric ring or other identifier?,,I was reading my engine book and they reference the seats by part number abut do not make known any special identifiers..so if you got a engine with history unknown, how do you ensure what you do or do not have..this may be a question without a real answer...I may be chasing after a ghost rabbit here..thanks gain
 
I honestly don't know if you can tell just by looking at them. im sure someone here has the answer to that. the 452 basically replaced the 906 with the addition of hardened seats for unleaded fuel.. as far as I know.
im not too cylinder head savvy
 
I admit not being up to speed on the big block cars and this recent purchase is my first B body entry. It will be quite a venture getting it on the road. My question is two fold, if I run this block till I can find a correct smaller 361 I need to know the valve train issues. If I trade it for the earlier engine to make it correct I will again probably be asked this very question from the person whom I may negotiate a trade/deal. Will hopefully get more replies and we get some straight skinny on this..thanks for your reply.
 
Although these are Chevy heads, you can see the seat for the exhaust. You should be able to see the smooth silver ring around the outside dimension of the exhaust valve. The second pic is a Mopar head with both intake and exhaust seats replaced.

P1030223.jpg

photo 1.jpg
 
Yup, that's what my 906 heads looked like when I had hardened seats installed way back in 1990.

...and for the record, the factory hardened 452 head (and others) seats are flame hardened.

Won't have the ring/insert as pictured, and may lose their hardening from the heat and material loss from doing a valve job.
 
many thanks folks.....so this pretty much sums all of it up....the 452 are stock unleaded but hardened by an inductive/flame process so no removable seat...the heads if having a removable seat have been cut and seats installed, guess we have to assume they are hardened..I will now know what to look for upon tear down.
 
If the seats have been put in, they are hardened. However, look very carefully under the seat and around it for cracking. Then, if nothing to the naked eye, get them magged.
 
The 346 heads (71-73) were induction (flame) hardened seats whereas the 452's were stellite material (solid hardened metal, not just surface hardened). There were a couple of other part number heads from 74 to 76 that had insignificant changes as far as guide thickness, etc; but all ports were the same from 71 on, so one is as good as another.

The probability of any 71+ versions seats having ever been replaced is nearly non existent unless a machine shop was just making a project out of a set just for the business. They are some tough seats, and even if a valve was bent, or some other catastrophe damaged a seat, just that seat would be replaced.

No BB head had a non-removable seat unless there is some weird industrial head I have never seen, and you can't really tell by looking if it's a stock seat, or replacement, unless it's a huge aftermarket seat like the ones that are pictured above (most replacement seats are not nearly that big a diameter).

Your 440 should have 346 heads on it and unless the valves or guides have abnormal wear, you can probably just lap the valves and be good as new.
 
The 346 heads (71-73) were induction (flame) hardened seats whereas the 452's were stellite material (solid hardened metal, not just surface hardened). There were a couple of other part number heads from 74 to 76 that had insignificant changes as far as guide thickness, etc; but all ports were the same from 71 on, so one is as good as another.

The probability of any 71+ versions seats having ever been replaced is nearly non existent unless a machine shop was just making a project out of a set just for the business. They are some tough seats, and even if a valve was bent, or some other catastrophe damaged a seat, just that seat would be replaced.

No BB head had a non-removable seat unless there is some weird industrial head I have never seen, and you can't really tell by looking if it's a stock seat, or replacement, unless it's a huge aftermarket seat like the ones that are pictured above (most replacement seats are not nearly that big a diameter).

Your 440 should have 346 heads on it and unless the valves or guides have abnormal wear, you can probably just lap the valves and be good as new.

I am not sure about your experience with Mopar cylinder heads, but this post is so full of inaccuracies and misinformation, it is hard to find a place to start. Induction and flame hardening are two seperate processes, not the same. The 452's did NOT have stellite seats from the factory, although they very likely had Stellite faced exhaust valves, and replacement seats can also be Stellite. I have replaced plenty of exhaust seats on late model heads. Once they have had a valvejob or two, the thickness of the seat is inconsistant. I do not replace seats so I can make a project out of it, but instead, the job is necessary. If you have a head, or set of heads off, and need to replace a seat, NOW is the best time to do the rest. They have all gone the same distance, and it is cheaper to do it at that time instead of the second time. Most customers want all of the seats replaced anyway, unless they do not have the money.

I do not understand this comment "No BB head had a non-removable seat unless there is some weird industrial head I have never seen, and you can't really tell by looking if it's a stock seat, or replacement, unless it's a huge aftermarket seat like the ones that are pictured above (most replacement seats are not nearly that big a diameter)." No cast Iron head that I have seen has ever come from the factory with a replaceable seat, and these seats are nowhere close to being "Huge". These are stock size replacement seats on both sets of heads.

Virgin heads from the early 70's are 40+ years old, and WILL need guides, 3 angle valve job, surfacing, new valves, springs, and quite possibly, exhaust seats. Heads that have been gone thru a few times will need everything with the exception of guides, depending on their condition. I would NEVER just recommend just "lapping" the valves as this is not 1955 anymore. If you have gone thru the trouble of removing everything to get the heads off, and you don't do a valve job, you are just asking for trouble.
 
That's the first time in 20 years I've ever heard of a factory separate piece, hardened seat in a pre- 90's Mopar. Can the poster give the references for his info?

I also see the term "induction (flame) hardened" a LOT.

Does everyone have this wrong?
 
W O W , learned something new , every time i come , and read , i learn , this is G R E A T , T H A N K S ! ! ! !
 
I have a 1956.....that's ninteen fifty six 331 Chrysler Hemi. It was a truck engine. When I disassembled it, it had pressed in hardened exhaust seats and sodium filled exhaust valves. I did some research and discovered that those items were factory installed. In 1956. I would not be surprised to see other truck and industrial MoPar engines with the same type equipment.

All that being said, I am not sure hardened seats are really imperative on a street car. Opinions vary, but that's mine. I've torn down a LOT of engines and I have seen WAY more heads in fine shape that did not have hardened seats than those that were in poor shape. Just food for thought.
 
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