WIW. 69.5 A12 Super Bee WM21.

[TimS]

Hello. Thinking of buying an A12 Bee from a friend of mine. Car is totally restored V2 Hemi orange with black bench seat Hemi 4 speed & 4.10 Dana. Not #’s matching motor or trans but is an original 4 speed 6 pack car. Missing 6 pack setup and air cleaner. Has 4bbl on it now. Original fender tag. Beautiful car. Has had new quarters, trunk floor and floor pans installed so not an “all original metal” car. What would be a good offer for this car? Thanks.

 

[BeeKool]

Some pictures would help.
Are the body numbers matching? Radiator Support, Trunk Lip?
Does the car have a build sheet or any other documentation?

 

[gtx1of1]

if all of us said give him 75k would you.
prob not.
offer him what you think is fair.

 

[TimS]

if all of us said give him 75k would you.
prob not.
offer him what you think is fair.

Back to my original question???? What is fair price for it?

 

[TimS]

Some pictures would help.
Are the body numbers matching? Radiator Support, Trunk Lip?
Does the car have a build sheet or any other documentation?

I'll see if I can get some shots of it. I don't have any right now. Radiator support and trunk lip match the VIN. No build sheet. We found this in a field about 20 years ago dressed as a 383 HP AT car.

 

[moparnation74]

60-70k......having the original FT helps because a lot of 6pk cars out there have reproduction tags.

This is based on no pictures to evaluate the actual condition.

 

[BeeKool]

Not having its original or any 6pk engine is a demerit on price.

If you havent already, look around the A-12 forum and post a few ?s Thats where the more knowledgable members are more likely to give you accurate answers.

Cant wait for pictures. Thses cars are the Bees Knees. Pun intended

 

[flypaper]

sight unseen I would start in the high 50's/low 60's
the few dings are not original metal, missing about 5k in parts
does it have a 054 rad? correct dual point distrib ?
if not,add 2k more missing
most are missing the orig motors
a dated motor would help???
might not bring value up much
but it makes buyers feel better that orig is gone and help sale

 

[68Moparmaniac]

Average Sale Coupe $53,952 Hardtop Coupe $51,195


Engines Average Sale 426 CID | 425 HP $98,569
383 CID | 330 HP $27,805
383 CID | 290 HP $18,300
318 CID | 230 HP
Yearly Averages
Year Average Sale High Sale Low Sale # of Sales
2019 $51,425 $71,500 $24,200 4
2018 $71,477 $165,000 $27,250 11
2017 $39,579 $99,000 $19,000 20
2016 $46,744 $88,000 $22,000 8
2015 $58,507 $121,000 $15,750 7
2014 $36,800 $93,500 $20,600 9
2013 $45,688 $82,500 $12,750 4
2012 $61,110 $170,500 $15,000 5
2011 $36,980 $74,800 $18,000 10
2010 $33,250 $38,000 $28,500 2
2009 $40,107 $82,500 $23,500 7
2008 $61,288 $126,500 $17,000 10
2007 $64,880 $137,500 $18,500 10
2006 $90,067 $165,000 $24,500 6
2005 $69,559 $154,000 $19,372 8

 

[TimS]

Not having its original or any 6pk engine is a demerit on price.

If you havent already, look around the A-12 forum and post a few ?s Thats where the more knowledgable members are more likely to give you accurate answers.

Cant wait for pictures. Thses cars are the Bees Knees. Pun intended

I tried last night but it's been awhile since I listed my old 69.5 Roadrunner (car #3) on that sight. I need a moderator to help get me logged in again. Don't recall my username and password.

 

[moparnation74]

Not having its original or any 6pk engine is a demerit on price.

If you havent already, look around the A-12 forum and post a few ?s Thats where the more knowledgable members are more likely to give you accurate answers.

Cant wait for pictures. Thses cars are the Bees Knees. Pun intended

There are not many of the A12’s that survived with its original drivetrain. There are just as many that sport a fake fender tag........

The condition of the body work is key on the OPs find......the problem is most of them being sold are older restorations in 1980-1990 and age shows....the owners are older and are letting them go while the getting is still good...

Sad thing is most of those need to be restored again but one would be nuts to dump that coin...

 

[gkent]

There was an absolutely gorgeous one at Carlisle last year or the year before. All there except for the original block. Price tag was somewhere around 4100 k. But the car was FLAWLESS to the point of being over restored and something you wouldn't want to drive. That said, finding a 6 pack setup will run you close to $3000. The air cleaner - if you can fine one - another $1500 minimum.. The other thing to consider is that with the exception of the above items and #'s, its basically just plain Road Runner. That in mind you could probably find a hemi car for roughly the same money. A lot of things to weigh !!

 

[Budnicks]

Average Sale Coupe $53,952 Hardtop Coupe $51,195


Engines Average Sale 426 CID | 425 HP $98,569
383 CID | 330 HP $27,805
383 CID | 290 HP $18,300
318 CID | 230 HP
Yearly Averages
Year Average Sale High Sale Low Sale # of Sales
2019 $51,425 $71,500 $24,200 4
2018 $71,477 $165,000 $27,250 11
2017 $39,579 $99,000 $19,000 20
2016 $46,744 $88,000 $22,000 8
2015 $58,507 $121,000 $15,750 7
2014 $36,800 $93,500 $20,600 9
2013 $45,688 $82,500 $12,750 4
2012 $61,110 $170,500 $15,000 5
2011 $36,980 $74,800 $18,000 10
2010 $33,250 $38,000 $28,500 2
2009 $40,107 $82,500 $23,500 7
2008 $61,288 $126,500 $17,000 10
2007 $64,880 $137,500 $18,500 10
2006 $90,067 $165,000 $24,500 6
2005 $69,559 $154,000 $19,372 8

Maybe it was a mistake...

not a best apples to apples comparison

Those are all #'s from 1968's
& it's Roadrunners Post Coupe & Hard Top
Auction prices
albeit great info, it's not the 1969.5 A12 or Super-Bee

 

[Budnicks]

Non matching engine & trans
I've seen usually is about a 25% less value

even if it's a good professional quality restoration
it can take a bit ding in value, if someone wants a real 69.5 A12

& no org. six-pack, (it's not a A12 at heart without a six pack)
that alone is a big ding in price
$3000-$3500+ to replace in re-pop stuff,
probably $4,000-$6,000+ or more for original
#'s 1969.5 carbs, intake, air-cleaner base, filter & top etc.

org. 18 spline 4 speed trans is another ding

albeit;
some people would NOT care it's not an org. block or trans
six-pack, Air cleaner parts, hood etc.
as long as it has the right parts for an A12,
that's where a huge part of the value is
date coded block, specific six pack rods, crank pistons dampner,
bellhousing, trans, dana 60 rear,
six pack lift off hood, proper pins & lanyards, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Like Justin says;
a lot of them got destroyed, replaced

value is really in the eyes of the buyer
I may think it's worth far less than someone else does

Nice 69.5 A12 RR's & SB's 6bbl/Six Pack
'correct cars' bring $65k-$125k regularly
depending on quality, originality, workmanship or survivor status etc.

hell some resto-mods bring that now too

good luck

 

[gkent]

Well there is a lot of work in a decent resto-mod too!

 

[vintage chromoly]

I’ve been in the market for a decent A12 project for over 2 years now.
My problem is that, extremely rusty and missing all the A12 parts, projects are asking 20,000 plus.
I missed my opportunity last fall.

I agree that the cars available in the 70 to 90 thousand range, for the most part, are older amateur restorations and are missing the majority of their A12 specific components. The A12 specific parts are a big deal to me. Chasing real A12 parts to replace repop parts is a bit of a drag.

The plus side, as far as the A12 market goes, is that with a little bit of homework, you can Research any car on the market.
If you take the time and reach out to the guys who collect these cars, the info is there to make an informed decision.

I’d put a “no pictures” estimate on the car in question @ 50k, give or take.

 

[vintage chromoly]

Also, I’d take an A12 car over a HEMI bee or roadrunner.
That probably puts me in the minority, but I’m not driven by money in regards to these old cars.

 

[gkent]

Also, I’d take an A12 car over a HEMI bee or roadrunner.

Seriously !!!!

but I’m not driven by money in regards to these old cars.

Me neither ... you just can't beat the look of that elephant sitting under the hood !!

 

[Big D A12]

TimS,

The older restorations from the 1990's era seem to be going in the 50k to 60k range. Most need work, some serious, some easily repaired. Some pictures would help for a better estimate of pricing.

The really nice A12 cars are not changing hands on the open market.

D

 

[TimS]

This car is a fresh restoration just in the past 2 or 3 years. He's had the car about 20. He and I found this sitting in a field in Northern IN while going to buy a Dana 60 from a fella with quite a few cars of various years and models sitting around. I just thought it was a standard 383 AT Super Bee until closer inspection of the VIN and fender tag revealed otherwise. All the 6 pack goodies, even the Dana had been removed. 4 speed pedals were still there. Didn't take much to buy that car out of the field. It had been sitting quite a while. Owner said he bought it in the Chicago area in the mid 80's.