Making 500whp in 2023

[kaj750]

This site seems super slow... but hoping for some help!

I'm finding some old posts, on many forums regarding this age-old question: How to make an honest 500whp. However, I can't find any into dated within the last 8yrs. Am I missing something or is it just because it's been done so much, everyone knows how and so no need to discuss?
I've been building imports for about 20yrs. 500whp was as easy as a larger turbo and more fuel. Now, I have an old 440 that is stock other than an RPM intake mani. I'd like an honest 500whp and to do it as simply as possible. I'm not new to cars or putting then together, but I am 100% new to old engines, old distributors, and push rods/rockers/etc.
So... my engine has been rebuilt, judging by the paperwork included. It looks to be mostly stock from what I can tell. I'd rather swap parts (I.E. heads) than to have stock stuff worked and machined. I'm not trying to be super cheap with my budget, but I've always built cars with the philosophy of only doing what's need to get the results I need. I don't drag race the thing, just drive it on weekends.
My only plans are to swap to EFI because I'd like to start the thing without drama. It looks like the Holley kit will do 500whp.
I'm not looking to have my hand held, but I'm NOT familiar with older engines, so may not understand certain terminology, so please keep advice simple haha. And yes: if I had an engine builder in my area that I trusted, I'd be bugging them instead. Sadly.. .I don't. I have access to an amazing machine shop, but I will be responsible for my own assembly and R&R.

So.. if anyone is willing to take the time (again) to help another member (again) on a good way to go about this (again...), I'd really appreciate it. Here, via PMs, text, email whatever. Also, if you are a shop/vendor/etc I wouldn't expect your time to be free.

I'm just hoping for a to-do list that I follow to get the results I need.

Thanks in advance.

My current rat's nest:

 

[davek]

might help How You Can Build a Stout 537HP Street 440 or

 

[RemCharger]

Remember wheeldyno numbers are about as reliable as a 3 legged horse.
But, you're right, throw a turbo at it. Or, if you're lazy and cheap like me, juice it till you get the numbers you like.
Or are you going to the N/A darkside

 

[kaj750]

might help How You Can Build a Stout 537HP Street 440 or

Very awesome. Thank you!

Remember wheeldyno numbers are about as reliable as a 3 legged horse.
But, you're right, throw a turbo at it. Or, if you're lazy and cheap like me, juice it till you get the numbers you like.
Or are you going to the N/A darkside

Definitely N/A. I figure if I'm going old-school, I'd actually like to keep it that way. I'm only doing EFI because I'm fluent in carburetor. I'd definitely like to not have another boosted car. Having something without a turbo on it is a really, really nice.

 

[HawkRod]

So a quick comment regarding a small turbo engine vs. an old 440.

A small displacement engine makes power very differently than a big displacement 440. The small displacement engine with turbo makes horsepower by revving, while a large displacement engine makes lots of low end torque. This results in a very different dynamic driving, and I have to say the low end torque is addictive. I currently have a 500 cubic inch 400 based block. My father-in-law calls it the torque monster. The low end torque is what will put a big, shitty grin on your face.

The 440 was designed in the 50s and 60s. The heads are very restrictive by today's standards. So one of the easiest things you can do is replace the heads with Trickflow or other good aluminum heads. Headers (and a large exhaust) are a must. The other thing you should add is a roller cam. This will allow for more air to flow through the valve due to a roller cams superior lobe design. Finally, you need to make sure whatever carb or FI system you have can flow well enough to get the air in, and through a high flow single plane manifold.

If the block is a solid rebuild, you can simply do the above. If you really want to go wild, you can blueprint the block. These old blocks were not machined to the tolerances of current engines, so they are not very square, often they are off .015" - .020" side to side. Every bit of attention you give them will help increase efficiency, and ultimately, power.

 

[kaj750]

So a quick comment regarding a small turbo engine vs. an old 440.

A small displacement engine makes power very differently than a big displacement 440. The small displacement engine with turbo makes horsepower by revving, while a large displacement engine makes lots of low end torque. This results in a very different dynamic driving, and I have to say the low end torque is addictive. I currently have a 500 cubic inch 400 based block. My father-in-law calls it the torque monster. The low end torque is what will put a big, shitty grin on your face.

The 440 was designed in the 50s and 60s. The heads are very restrictive by today's standards. So one of the easiest things you can do is replace the heads with Trickflow or other good aluminum heads. Headers (and a large exhaust) are a must. The other thing you should add is a roller cam. This will allow for more air to flow through the valve due to a roller cams superior lobe design. Finally, you need to make sure whatever carb or FI system you have can flow well enough to get the air in, and through a high flow single plane manifold.

If the block is a solid rebuild, you can simply do the above. If you really want to go wild, you can blueprint the block. These old blocks were not machined to the tolerances of current engines, so they are not very square, often they are off .015" - .020" side to side. Every bit of attention you give them will help increase efficiency, and ultimately, power.

My current track car is a 3.0L with a smallish turbo making 388whp and 420wtq. It's a whole other world from my last FI car that was 430whp with 375wtq. It's a B L A S T to drive compared to my old car.
If I can hit that magic 500whp number with the 440, I know the toque will be more than my tires can handle. That's a bonus. 500whp is for no other reason that it's just a number I want. Call me impulsive. haha.
So a roller cam then all the valvetrain upgrades to go with? I was hoping to keep the rockers and cam OEM/hydraulic/flat tappet for simplicity, but I'm open to changing that.

 

[RemCharger]

15g done.

 

[HawkRod]

So a roller cam then all the valvetrain upgrades to go with? I was hoping to keep the rockers and cam OEM/hydraulic/flat tappet for simplicity, but I'm open to changing that.

Then change your mind.

You need to make around 625HP to make 500 at the wheels.

You really haven't talked about where you will use this car, but I assume the street. So you want the car to be truly streetable - not a race car. Basically, a roller cam, with about the same lift and duration as a flat tappet cam, can flow higher numbers. Just look at pictures of a flat tappet vs. a roller cam. The slope of a roller cam lobe is much greater. It can open a valve faster, keep it open longer, and close it faster than a flat tappet. That lets more air flow and that equals power. On top of that, you get the benefits of not having to worry about cam lobes wiping out, etc. If you want modern day power you need to go with some modern day parts.

JMHO

 

[kaj750]

Then change your mind.

You need to make around 625HP to make 500 at the wheels.

You really haven't talked about where you will use this car, but I assume the street. So you want the car to be truly streetable - not a race car. Basically, a roller cam, with about the same lift and duration as a flat tappet cam, can flow higher numbers. Just look at pictures of a flat tappet vs. a roller cam. The slope of a roller cam lobe is much greater. It can open a valve faster, keep it open longer, and close it faster than a flat tappet. That lets more air flow and that equals power. On top of that, you get the benefits of not having to worry about cam lobes wiping out, etc. If you want modern day power you need to go with some modern day parts.

JMHO

That's fair. Like I said, I don't mind changing my mind. I drive the car on weekends, on the street, yes. So I'd *barely* like to reach 500. I say barely because, with any platform I've ever dealt with, there are those that tend to "go bigger in case you want more later blah blah" which ALWAYS results in a car that's not optimized now and (usually) not fun to drive. Such as if I were to toss a giant carb onto this car, etc.

 

[davek]

Get a 6 pack set up and you will be happy.

 

[6872n73]

Lookup engine masters 440 cylinder head shootout.

 

[496 polara]

I will start by saying there are many here smarter than my so this is just my opinion(and a recipe I may be following soon).

I would say either a 4.15 or 4.25 stroke crank will be the place to start.For heads the trick flow 240 will likely get you there out of the box. Good machine work and good set of rods and pistons round out the shortblock.
For cam I would look into a street profile solid roller.Other options can get you there too. For an intake with the fuel injection a single plane trick flow or edelbrock victor will work well if you have the hood clearance.

Going to need some good exhaust with likely 2inch primary tube headers and 3" tubing after.

There are quite a few engine builders here who have done this (and a lot more).

My engine will be using cnc edelbrock rpm heads(already have them) and I would consider that a minimum for your goal without sacrificing streetability.

 

[Rishi]

As others suggest, I concur it will predominantly be the heads that would keep the engine from making more than 1HP/cubic inch.

Stroker kits, roller rockers and lifters, long duration cams, hi-flow carburetors and header exhausts may fail to achieve the goal, unless the heads flow well enough to allow it.

IMO, don't skimp on the cylinder heads.

Many of the 440-source 512 stroker kits using Trick Flow 240s, or INDYs seem to make >500HP on the dyno.

 

[RemCharger]

Trick flows recipe made 620 in a 440, according to them.
That's a fairly simple to- do list.

 

[furious70]

With your back ground why not play to your strengths and do a single T6?
It will still make a ton of lower end tq with a 1.32 ar housing.
Unless you really do want a rowdy cammed NA engine - which is fine and sounds like it's ready to party and is - if you're ok with the trade offs in drivability and durability vs milder stuff.

 

[Hemirunner]

It’ll be way less expensive to do with a ratty old 440 and a turbo than doing it with a 500” NA stroker. Either way is easy and the recipes are out there. I’m at 1200rwhp and I can tell you there’s always someone with way more going way faster lol

 

[kaj750]

Turbo chargers are great, but I'd really like to have a car without one. Almost every toy I've ever had was turbo. I appreciate NA simplicity.
If 500whp is going to be unreliable, than I'll readjust my goals. I'd rather have an NA car that I can have fun in on the weekends than a faster turbo car or a 500whp NA car that needs constant maintenance and repair as eluded to above.
I'll swap the heads out, add EFI, and ditch the flat tappet stuff for roller in addiction to the current headers and intake. I'll just be happy with where that lands me.
But, hey. It was fun while it lasted haha.
Thanks, guys!

 

[RemCharger]

Troll lol.
And shot for low #s too

 

[RemCharger]

I wanna see a b18 lay down more than 200hp na that would be insane

 

[RemCharger]

At the crank to make it possible