Making 500whp in 2023

[Coop]

I’d take a look at the results from engine masters on motor trend television. Spend a couple of bucks on a subscription to stream it. It’s well worth it and you can do all the watching you need to in less than a month. They did an episode specifically on easy cylinder head upgrades for the 440. In the end, the trick flow 240 cylinder heads achieved about 540 foot pounds of torque and 525 hp on a very Street able build. The other heads that it was compared to included a redone side of 906 oem heads, a set of 440 source stealth aluminum heads , a set of Edelbrock heads And of course the trick flows that outperformed the closest competitor(edy) by 25hp. They are the most expensive, but I can say I’ve used them on several engines before and the results have exceeded expectations every time. You can start with a proven combination like the one on engine masters and then make tweaks to camshaft selection, as well as compression ratio to get the exact performance you’re looking for. I’m putting together a combo based on these heads I have but the engine work is not complete so I can’t share results

 

[33 IMP]

Just my opinion only!
With so many options for power-adder horsepower available today, building an almost-race 650hp (crank) N/A engine for a street car is foolish.
A 500-525 horse engine can be lived with, or build intending to use a power adder to reach the goal of 650 crank, or 750, or whatever.
A 400 whp engine got my car into the nines, granted very light. What are you expecting from 500 whp?

 

[kaj750]

Troll lol.
And shot for low #s too

I don't think anyone has any idea of what you are saying here.

I wanna see a b18 lay down more than 200hp na that would be insane

They used to, but were so high-strung they weren't worth it for anything meant to drive on the street. I've been out of the Honda game for a number of years, so can't even remember what all it took to get there other than some serious work that made them even more of a torqueless wonder LOL

I’d take a look at the results from engine masters on motor trend television. Spend a couple of bucks on a subscription to stream it. It’s well worth it and you can do all the watching you need to in less than a month. They did an episode specifically on easy cylinder head upgrades for the 440. In the end, the trick flow 240 cylinder heads achieved about 540 foot pounds of torque and 525 hp on a very Street able build. The other heads that it was compared to included a redone side of 906 oem heads, a set of 440 source stealth aluminum heads , a set of Edelbrock heads And of course the trick flows that outperformed the closest competitor(edy) by 25hp. They are the most expensive, but I can say I’ve used them on several engines before and the results have exceeded expectations every time. You can start with a proven combination like the one on engine masters and then make tweaks to camshaft selection, as well as compression ratio to get the exact performance you’re looking for. I’m putting together a combo based on these heads I have but the engine work is not complete so I can’t share results

I've decided on the Trick Flow heads, yes. If you finish your build and happen to remember this thread, please post your results! I could use the inspiration/motivation.

Just my opinion only!
With so many options for power-adder horsepower available today, building an almost-race 650hp (crank) N/A engine for a street car is foolish.
A 500-525 horse engine can be lived with, or build intending to use a power adder to reach the goal of 650 crank, or 750, or whatever.
A 400 whp engine got my car into the nines, granted very light. What are you expecting from 500 whp?

Yeah, as I posted above that I see 500 at the wheels isn't going to work in this particular situation, so I'll put the engine together and be happy with whatever it puts out. The car is a blast to drive now, so not like I'll be suffering one bit! 500 is just a number I've always shot for with any car I've had.. I figured it wouldn't be too hard with 440 cubic inches... but then there's the efficiency of those C.I. to think about haha.
The car will make two black streaks for as long as I like, should the need arise. That's good enough for me! Whatever amount of WTQ I end up will keep me plenty happy.
To all: I'm already starting a shopping list, starting with the heads and a sub to MT. Thanks, again, for everyone's help. Please keep the suggestions and encouragement coming.

 

[BSB67]

I think 500 WHP is fairly easy but not cheap and it needs to be well thought out. Seems like few think so.

500 cu.in., 10.75:1 CR, TF 240 heads, medium sized street roller. Add the appropriate induction and exhaust and I think you are there.

 

[33 IMP]

I figure 625 crank hp to make 500whp with a 727. I'm thinking its a lot easier to make, and live with, with a power adder. Tho obviously it can be done with good parts and a willingness to live with a pretty radical motor.
Its too bad that aftermarket blocks for 440/hemi are so expensive. I could write a check today for a 750hp capable short block bbc for about the same money as a bare aftermarket bbm block.

 

[BSB67]

I figure 625 crank hp to make 500whp with a 727. I'm thinking its a lot easier to make, and live with, with a power adder. Tho obviously it can be done with good parts and a willingness to live with a pretty radical motor.
It’s too bad that aftermarket blocks for 440/hemi are so expensive. I could write a check today for a 750hp capable short block bbc for about the same money as a bare aftermarket bbm block.

The more power you want, the easier it gets with a power adder.

But considering the goal, I probably wouldn’t do a power adder. 625 NA does not need to be radical. My car is reasonably close to that without headers, and is mild enough to run well with 3.23 gear and stock converter.

 

[cdr]

You said the engine has already been rebuilt, for what you want to do, alot has to do with what compression height piston they used, ie deck height of piston

 

[kaj750]

I could write a check today for a 750hp capable short block bbc for about the same money as a bare aftermarket bbm block.

Man, don't I know it.

 

[Rich H.]

I came close enough (for me) to 500RWHP with a street B engine about 20 years ago and was making some rough changes (carb spacers) at the time to observe the effect, not much fine tuning going on but I wish I had time for more.

Car ran a best of 11.0 but usually ran consistent 11.20s. 93 octane, closed exhaust, really not a very racy deal by most standards.
Engine is still in the car, in fact. Always driven to and from the track, dream cruise, driving for pleasure/no reason, and really anywhere I wanted. I'll post the combination if it will help. It's probably not going to impress anyone because it doesn't have all the latest and most expensive stuff in it. All it really has are a few suitable parts, quality machine work and assembly.

Personally I wouldn't do it for a regular driver kind of car, unless you're prepared to equip the car with everything it needs to cope with it and be legal to run at the track, (assuming you will want to run it at the track at all).

 

[INTMD8]

Just my opinion only!
With so many options for power-adder horsepower available today, building an almost-race 650hp (crank) N/A engine for a street car is foolish.

Just depends on preference.

I used to have many twin turbo cars and they were faster than what I currently have but it's still a blast to drive a good naturally aspirated engine in terms of sound and response.

 

[rikkitik]

A decent "rule of thumb" is, 2hp per cfm. A stroker isn't "necessary" for 600hp (crank), airflow is. As Jim LaRoy (IQ52) says, the 3 most important things for good power, "cylinder heads, cylinder heads, and lastly, cylinder heads".
In any given situation, airflow will determine hp/tq. A 440 can make 600hp built properly, as can a 512. The 512 (with the same head/cam) will do it about 400rpm earlier than the 440.
Even the TF240's (which I have) are "relatively" small for "modern" big blocks. Check out the Enginemasters 240 vs 270 comparison episode. The 270's even gained a bunch of lowend due to better flow.
Also might want to check out Jim's 440 build in this link,
Trick Flows on the 440.....
- Rick

 

[kaj750]

A decent "rule of thumb" is, 2hp per cfm. A stroker isn't "necessary" for 600hp (crank), airflow is. As Jim LaRoy (IQ52) says, the 3 most important things for good power, "cylinder heads, cylinder heads, and lastly, cylinder heads".
In any given situation, airflow will determine hp/tq. A 440 can make 600hp built properly, as can a 512. The 512 (with the same head/cam) will do it about 400rpm earlier than the 440.
Even the TF240's (which I have) are "relatively" small for "modern" big blocks. Check out the Enginemasters 240 vs 270 comparison episode. The 270's even gained a bunch of lowend due to better flow.
Also might want to check out Jim's 440 build in this link,
Trick Flows on the 440.....
- Rick

I've been watching every Enginemasters episode on the site. I can't seem to find the single episode where they compare heads. Not sure How I missed it, as I went through every single season LOL. I'm gonna keep looking, so that my subscription isn't wasted LOL

 

[forphorty]

I've been watching every Enginemasters episode on the site. I can't seem to find the single episode where they compare heads. Not sure How I missed it, as I went through every single season LOL. I'm gonna keep looking, so that my subscription isn't wasted LOL

906 vs 440 Source vs Edel vs TF 240 is Season 6 episode 95 . TF240 vs TF 270 is S7 Ep 114

 

[kaj750]

906 vs 440 Source vs Edel vs TF 240 is Season 6 episode 95 . TF240 vs TF 270 is S7 Ep 114

Gracias. I'll go back and look. HOW did I miss all that??

**edit: I'm on the MT site and I'm only seeing 26 episodes for season 6 and about the same for season 7. That explains it. But now I know what to look for!

 

[33 IMP]

Gracias. I'll go back and look. HOW did I miss all that??

**edit: I'm on the MT site and I'm only seeing 26 episodes for season 6 and about the same for season 7. That explains it. But now I know what to look for!

I can half-assed summarize.
Each better head was (roughly)about 20 hp better than the previous. 440source 20 better than 906, rpm twenty better than 440,240 twenty better than rpm.
I'd have to double check, but i think the 270 was better than the 240 everywhere, even on the bottom, and I think 30hp better on top. So, clearly, STILL not enough head for a stout 440, let alone a 500/512.