440 cam installation

[nitro_rat]

I'm tossing together a cheap 440 for my '73 Power Wagon. I'm starting with a '77 cast crank core. It's going .020" over with silvolite 1263 pistons (stock replacement for the '71 and earlier engines). This will get the compression up a little from the dismal 7.5:1 or whatever it originally had. Close to 9:1 from the numbers I ran. Cam is a Melling MTD2 "RV" cam. I have a double roller timing set with the adjustable 3 keyway setup. I have a stock '70 4 barrel intake for it and it will likely be getting a fresh Edelbrock AVS2 800. Stock truck exhaust manifolds. Stock 452 heads, may cut them .020" and run composite head gaskets, otherwise I'll put steel shim ones in.

I am wondering if I should make the effort to degree the cam, just install it "straight up", or plug it in 4 degrees advanced. I'm leaning towards just tossing it in straight up.

Secondly, looking at the specs, the cam is actually a little smaller on the intake side than the "stock replacement" SPD11 cam. The MTD2 recommends a VS430 valve spring. Is it necessary? Maybe better to run the stockers on the intake and the VS430 on the exhaust? Break it in on all stockers and swap in the VS430's after break in? Swap them in only on the exhaust? I don't want to be harder on the lifters than necessary or build any extra heat if I don't need to.

I'm putting this thing together with bargain basement parts that I already have so I'm not changing pistons, cam, etc. Just wondering if it's going to make any measurable difference to go above and beyond on what is basically a stock budget rebuild?

Truck is mainly a highway cruiser; about 5,200 lbs, 33's, 3.55 gears, currently 727 auto but will probably be swapping to a manual transmission eventually.

 

[Aron Gleason]

I just put in a new cam, lifters and timing chain. It's at dot to dot

 

[R413]

what max rpm Will you be running it? 5000, 4000?

Weaker springs are better for cam break in.

Straight up.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

The Summit K6401 is a great cam for torque.

 

[Geoff 2]

The 650 AVS2 would be better for a 5200 lb vehicle.

 

[DanielSlocum]

Sometimes the dot to dot method is not accurate and can lead to several degrees of valve timing error. Degree it if you can and that RV grind should not require any advancing if the dots prove to be accurate. Good idea to break-in the cam using your old worn/weak springs.
After break-in i would then install the recommended springs or their equivelant.
Sounds like you have a good combination there. Good luck.

 

[dvw]

You are taking all the time and money to build it. Why wouldn't you put a degree wheel on it to know where it's at? As long as it's close, OK. But what if it's not? Then you saved yourself a huge headache.
Doug

 

[nitro_rat]

what max rpm Will you be running it? 5000, 4000?

Weaker springs are better for cam break in.

Straight up.

It will probably never see 4000. Just a daily driver. I do take long trips in it and it will see prolonged cruising at 3000-3500.

The Summit K6401 is a great cam for torque.

I agree but I already have this one.

The 650 AVS2 would be better for a 5200 lb vehicle.

I disagree on a divided dual plane intake. Even a 318 runs better with the 800. You really can’t get enough carb on even a stock 440. If I had a good Thermoquad and intake I would run that but someone swapped the carb and intake off a 69 440 on to this engine and it’s what I have. The carb is junk (left outside and corroded full of water) so I’ll slap one of my Edelbrocks on it (converted to divorced choke).

 

[69Bee]

I'm tossing together a cheap 440 for my '73 Power Wagon. I'm starting with a '77 cast crank core. It's going .020" over with silvolite 1263 pistons (stock replacement for the '71 and earlier engines). This will get the compression up a little from the dismal 7.5:1 or whatever it originally had. Close to 9:1 from the numbers I ran. Cam is a Melling MTD2 "RV" cam. I have a double roller timing set with the adjustable 3 keyway setup. I have a stock '70 4 barrel intake for it and it will likely be getting a fresh Edelbrock AVS2 800. Stock truck exhaust manifolds. Stock 452 heads, may cut them .020" and run composite head gaskets, otherwise I'll put steel shim ones in.

I am wondering if I should make the effort to degree the cam, just install it "straight up", or plug it in 4 degrees advanced. I'm leaning towards just tossing it in straight up.

Secondly, looking at the specs, the cam is actually a little smaller on the intake side than the "stock replacement" SPD11 cam. The MTD2 recommends a VS430 valve spring. Is it necessary? Maybe better to run the stockers on the intake and the VS430 on the exhaust? Break it in on all stockers and swap in the VS430's after break in? Swap them in only on the exhaust? I don't want to be harder on the lifters than necessary or build any extra heat if I don't need to.

I'm putting this thing together with bargain basement parts that I already have so I'm not changing pistons, cam, etc. Just wondering if it's going to make any measurable difference to go above and beyond on what is basically a stock budget rebuild?

Truck is mainly a highway cruiser; about 5,200 lbs, 33's, 3.55 gears, currently 727 auto but will probably be swapping to a manual transmission eventually.

Your numbers are incorrect. With those pistons, you are 0.121" in the hole, and with an assumed 88cc head, you are at 8.1:1 CR. Then factoring in the volume around the top of the piston to the top ring, you are down to approximately 8.0:1 CR

 

[dvw]

Agreed those pistons going to be at least .120" in the hole. Even more if the block hasn't been trued up. I disagree with needing a larger carb. We ran a 440 using a 650 Eddy carb, Eddy heads, Mopar 484 purple cam, headers with full exhaust, Performer RPM, stock 12" converter, pistons .150" in the hole, 3.91, Radial T/A 255/60 street tires on 87 octane. It ran 12.90's easily in 65 street Belvedere.
Doug

 

[nitro_rat]

According to Silvolite, the compression height on the 1263’s I’m using is .157” higher than the 1274 which is listed as the stock replacement for the late engine. @69Bee, if your number is correct, my stock pistons would be .278” in the hole (assuming the 1274 is spec’ed the same as the stock piston). I know they weren’t THAT far down the hole, maybe .186” or something like that. I did measure but I didn’t write it down.

Either way, I’m fine at 8:1, this thing will need to consume pump regular.

My block and heads definitely haven’t been cut, it’s standard bore and the stock steel shim gaskets were still in there.

 

[Geoff 2]

You see that car.....
It weighed two tons & got to a top speed of 118 mph...with a TINY 2bbl carb. It had great acceleration getting to 118 mph....

 

[dvw]

Silvolite shows the compression height as 1.969". At 10.725" deck (which will be higher it it hasn't been optimised) the piston will be .121" in the hole.
Doug

7.2L 4.3200(IN) 109.7(MM) CHRYSLER ENGINE 1966-71 9.5 8.8 Flat head piston replacing both flat head and dished O.E. pistons. COMP HT: 1.969 PIN DIA: 1.094 Offset

 

[69Bee]

According to Silvolite, the compression height on the 1263’s I’m using is .157” higher than the 1274 which is listed as the stock replacement for the late engine. @69Bee, if your number is correct, my stock pistons would be .278” in the hole (assuming the 1274 is spec’ed the same as the stock piston). I know they weren’t THAT far down the hole, maybe .186” or something like that. I did measure but I didn’t write it down.

Either way, I’m fine at 8:1, this thing will need to consume pump regular.

My block and heads definitely haven’t been cut, it’s standard bore and the stock steel shim gaskets were still in there.

Again, you are going too fast! The 1263 pistons for a 440 have a compression height of 1.969" and the 1274 pistons have a compression height of 1.812" BUT are for a 400 engine!!